Normally, this would be a “man bites dog” story except that the celebrity in question was insulting Democrats.

https://twitter.com/therealroseanne/status/1001471669641216005

Hollywood will tolerate a great deal of bad behavior from its own.  You can cost a big budget movie premiere a couple of hundred million dollars by injecting your sexual politics into family franchises like Jon Kasdan, for example.  Or you can call for the violent overthrow of the US government and launch the most imaginative attacks and threats against political figures and not see any blip in one’s career (Kathy Griffin being a rare exception).  All of it is okay, as long as that celebrity has the correct politics.

Say George W Bush looks like a monkey?  That’s fine.  Compare Valerie Jarrett to an ape?  Oooh, no way.  That’s how it is.  I mean…

I’m not defending Roseanne, of course.  This is one for the “bitch shoulda known better” file.  She should have known both that you cannot compare a black person to any non-human primate without being expelled from modern American society and that there is a double standard applied against people who hold the wrong political opinions.

Will this mean the destruction of her career, once and for all?  Probably not, though it’s permanently crippled.  The only thing I think is really a shame is that there was finally one show on prime time that was providing a different viewpoint and being wildly successful for it.    It only looks worse that Roseanne blew it up by acting as racially insensitive as Trump supporters are so often accused of being and it makes it unlikely that anyone else will get another opportunity.

It goes to show a couple of things.  First, being successful in entertainment provides no immunity when it comes to political incorrectness.  #MeToo doesn’t have a monopoly on this, though it’s the newer phenomenon.  Second, the Right needs to be a bit more choosy in terms of its standard-bearers.  Hollywood is very much enemy territory and discretion is the better part of valor.

82 comments

  1. Look, i despise Rosanne, and i am not gonnas shed any tears of her loss of her show. IT was stupid and immature, but this is fucking stupid, have you seen Valerie Jarrett? yeah she does look a bit like one of the chimps from the movies.. with that being said Trump still looks like he rolled in cheetos… so?> everyone happy?./

    With all the shit talking coming from talking heads and actors about Trumps appearance… heh, this is just a excuse.

    But then again this show belongs to ABC and they have the right to fire her if they think she causes through her action causes them problems..

  2. TBF: Barr has a long history of saying crazy stuff on Twitter and in general. I don’t mean conservative stuff; I mean *crazy* stuff like 9/11 conspiracy theories and so on. My feeling is that this was the last straw for ABC.

  3. Good one from the New York Post that builds on what I said in my next-to-the-last paragraph above.

    https://nypost.com/2018/05/29/hollywood-will-use-roseanne-as-an-excuse-to-get-more-insular/

    With that one totally thoughtless tweet, Barr lost her job and destroyed her own, already rocky reputation. Worse yet, she obliterated any chance of getting more honest depictions of working-class Americans on TV.

    “Roseanne”‘s detractors — who have spent the last several months seething over the show’s success — won’t learn an iota from its many achievements and huge ratings. Instead, networks will focus squarely on its star’s moral failures, and nix any middle-class stories that look an ounce like it going forward.

  4. It’s almost as if you can thread the needle that the trumpkin cucks outrage over the anthem kneeling is purely racial bigotry without any better example than Roseanne. If you’re that obese skank you can shit on the anthem quite publicly at a sporting event and become a folk hero of the dumbfuvk trump supporter, even getting mentioned by the orange cuck himself as someone who “gets us.”

    Don’t bother quietly kneeling during the anthem if you’re black, though. That’ll end your career to the toothless masses REAL QUICK. No one will be coming to your rescue with “whataboutisms” of “Bill Maher did It too!” like crying children caught bullying at recess.

    Just admit it. This type of racism, bigotry and flat out mean spirited insulting is the life blood of the trump movement and his followers; rosanne only had a matter of time before she was going to let the cat out of the bag and put a fine point on it.

    Your crayons got taken away because you’re assholes, not because there’s a conspiracy. ABC fucking GAVE that fat skank a national television platform to please the hillbillies with mild racism sitcom. SHE is the one that blew it and that’s that.

  5. his type of racism, bigotry and flat out mean spirited insulting is the life blood of the trump movement and his followers;

    Sounds like it works for both sides.

    that obese skank

    dumbfuvk trump supporter

    that fat skank

    to please the hillbillies

  6. Don’t bother quietly kneeling during the anthem if you’re black, though.

    Or any other color.

    There is a world of difference between a racist comment aimed at an individual, and giving the middle finger to the entire country, including those who pay your extremely generous salary.

  7. Sounds like it works for both sides.

    I was going to write a long reply to what Judge said, but this pretty much beats anything I had to say. Glad I’m not the only one who saw it for what it was.

    Judge didn’t mean it though, IT WAS THE AMBIEN.

    Honestly, I don’t doubt Roseanne’s claim on this. I’ve heard numerous Ambien horror stories over the years and there was something unusually maniacal in her tweets (yes, even by her standards).

  8. Judge didn’t mean it though, IT WAS THE AMBIEN.

    He’s on Ambien every time he posts? Constantly dreaming of “cucks” would explain a few things.

  9. There is a world of difference between a racist comment aimed at an individual, and giving the middle finger to the entire country, including those who pay your extremely generous salary.

    See, others would argue that there’s a world of difference between a non-stop stream of racial invective and conspiracy mongering on Twitter and someone kneeling quietly during as an act of social protest. It is not the protest I would have chosen, but I do have trouble seeing it as a “middle finger to the entire country” especially as that form of protest was chosen after speaking to veterans. I would “middle finger” for something like burning the flag or defacing graves at Arlington or something. Not to pick on you in particular but this an increasing problem on both right and left. Once you’ve used your biggest adjective for something like this, where do you go from there?

    Honestly, I don’t doubt Roseanne’s claim on this. I’ve heard numerous Ambien horror stories over the years and there was something unusually maniacal in her tweets (yes, even by her standards).

    Lee had some experiences with Ambien fugue states. It can cause confusion and odd behavior (my mother, for example, would take things out of the freezer and leave them out or eat random things; she thought someone was breaking into her house). But it doesn’t cause this sort of thing. And, as I noted, this wasn’t unusual behavior for her. She was tweeting PIzzagate and 9/11 conspiracy theories before this and once posed as Hitler taking cookies shaped like Jews out of the oven. Bitch be crazy.

  10. Hal, how do you say for sure Ambien doesn’t cause this sort of thing? By your own account, it can cause people to do things they wouldn’t ordinarily do.

    Now she can genuinely believe that Valerie Jarrett looks like an extra from Planet of the Apes and we can argue all day whether or not that’s racist. But would she normally tweet it if she wasn’t in an altered state? I can’t say for sure. Nobody can.

    None of it excuses anything, but I certainly think the Ambien defense is more believable than Joy Reid’s “Uh, I got hacked!” defense for past homophobia. And Reid still has a job.

  11. With that one totally thoughtless tweet, Barr lost her job and destroyed her own, already rocky reputation. Worse yet, she obliterated any chance of getting more honest depictions of working-class Americans on TV.

    I don’t follow this logic. Unless you’re saying that working class Americans are by definition racist, which is plainly untrue. In fact the pertinent point here was that her show wasn’t sunk because she was a Trump supporter – it was sunk because she was a racist.

  12. Apparently the makers of Ambien have clarified that being racist isn’t a side effect.
    Being a Trump supporter doesn’t mean you’re a racist but it sure as hell helps.

  13. we can argue all day whether or not that’s racist

    It shouldn’t require an argument. Accept that it is and move on.

  14. It shouldn’t require an argument. Accept that it is and move on.

    Come on, man! EVERYTHING requires an argument these days.

    I don’t get why this is racist, although I know that it is always automatically assumed to be racist when a black person is compared to an ape, monkey, gorilla, etc. I would also agree that it’s a racist idea to think that ALL black people look like apes, monkeys, gorillas, etc.

    But is it okay to think that a specific black person looks like a non-human primate? If not, why is it okay to say that a white person looks like one? I happen to think that the Parkland shooter looks like a monkey and he’s white.

    Surely Bill Maher doesn’t think all white people are organgutuans just because he compared Trump to one, right?

    Add to this that the Planet of the Apes is a fictional work. The “apes” aren’t apes at all. They’re human actors wearing masks and makeup. Many of them are Caucasian. Why can’t Roseanne compare Valerie Jarrett (who is weird looking) to a Caucasian actor who is dressed as a non-existent highly-evolved ape that’s actually superior to humans as portrayed in the movies?

    I’m just not clear on why that’s automatically racist even as I understand that it’s a given that it will be viewed that way since absolutely everything any Trump supporter says or does is assumed to be racist by some.

  15. Unless you’re saying that working class Americans are by definition racist, which is plainly untrue.

    No, I would never say that. Judge pretty much did above but that’s his own opinion.

    In fact the pertinent point here was that her show wasn’t sunk because she was a Trump supporter – it was sunk because she was a racist.

    And see, to Hollywood “Trump supporter” and “racist” are fully synonymous. Look at the Klingons in the rebooted Star Trek series to get an idea of how Hollywood almost literally views Trump supporters.

    For what it’s worth, I don’t think Roseanne is racist. I think she’s a nutjob.

    ABC admittedly took a risk by bringing the show back with the political undertones that it had. I’m sure the writers, producers, and network executives probably got an earful about it at the fancy cocktail orgies they go to.

    But there were already signs that ABC was disenchanted with it and there was talk about minimizing Roseanne’s pro-Trump views in the next season.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2018/05/15/abc-confirms-roseanne-will-move-away-from-politics-focus-more-on-family/

    I honestly think they were looking for a reason to ditch it althogether. The general attitude of the Left is that the social messaging is more important than ratings or financial success and that Right-wing views shouldn’t even be aired or allowed to exist because they’re just offensive.

    Roseanne has made it harder to make that sale. Any network that even thinks about copying the success of her show knows that if there’s any controversy of any size about either a potential show’s content or even the behavior of the lead actor, they’ll have to pull the plug.

    Why should they take that risk? Instead, just roll out another 20 shows that all show the attractive (and usually white) upper-middle class protagonists giving bigots their comeuppance with maximum preachiness. It’s all Hollywood really knows how to do anymore.

  16. See, others would argue……..

    …….I do have trouble seeing……..

    None of that matters. NFL fans have taken the “protests” more or less as I described them, which is why NFL ratings and revenues fell, and why there are new rules in place. Now you can call the fans “racists” if you want, but again, it doesn’t matter. They’ll just re-elect Trump as a response.

  17. But is it okay to think that a specific black person looks like a non-human primate?

    C’mon Will. Really?

    Is it your argument that Roseanne Barr genuinely thought that VJ specifically resembled one of the actors from Planet of the Apes, decided that this insight needed to be shared with the world. It was just a really unlucky coincidence that this benign observation, sounded like she was saying that a black woman looked like an ape, which is a well known racist trope. Oh and also she ‘forgot’ to mention which specific actor, playing which specific role in which specific film. Because if she was saying that VJ looked like a generic person in an ape costume, that really does veer into dodgy waters….

    And now you’re going to make me defend Bill Maher…. for fucks sake.

    The Maher bit is an insult. The Rosanne bit was a racist insult. The problem isn’t with Rosannes insult, it’s with the racist bit. Same with Samantha Bee. If Sam Bee had used a jewish slur in her insult, she’d be in trouble for being anti semetic. As it is, she’s just in trouble for the insult bit. Rosanne is in trouble for the racist bit.

  18. Is it your argument that Roseanne Barr genuinely thought that VJ specifically resembled one of the actors from Planet of the Apes, decided that this insight needed to be shared with the world.

    Given the accounts of other people who have tweeted bizarre things while under the influence of Ambien, yes, it does seem like in that moment she felt it needed to be shared.

    The Maher bit is an insult. The Rosanne bit was a racist insult. The problem isn’t with Rosannes insult, it’s with the racist bit.

    I don’t believe Roseanne is actually a racist nor do I think it’s racist to say that an individual black person looks like a fictional creature.

    In the case of Maher and Bee, they said vile and offensive things. Roseanne did too. I care less if it’s racist or anti-Semitic or what have you.

    They said things that were intended to shock and harm their targets. They were all vile.

    Difference is that I’m not defending Roseanne. You’re defending the shitty behavior of Maher and Bee though.

    This is exactly why I say that we have to stop letting liberals define and enforce the rules without living under them. If you won’t keep your hateful monsters in line, then we’ll just have to do it ourselves.

  19. So comparing someone to a monkey is only racist if the person is not white? Isn’t that the very definition of a double standard?

  20. As it is, she’s just in trouble for the insult bit. Rosanne is in trouble for the racist bit.

    All this dancing on the head of a needle trying to provide hierarchical primacy to protected classes, quite a spectacle.

    Maybe there is an aggrieved status ladder I’m not privy to but I always thought the left prioritized sexism right up there with racism. To normalize the debasement of women with the most vile vicious slander available, somehow this ticks low in the outrage meter compared to intimating a person of color is a descendant of an ape. For my money they are on par and equally contemptible. The C word is just as bad as the N word, both do not belong in common discourse.

    Yes, there is a difference here, while Barr delivered her shot within the confines of a 20 second tweet, alone, Bee’s offense was written prior, reviewed by the writing staff, scripted, rehearsed, delivered on national television, then edited by the producers for maximum affect.

    The sting is not lessened or the culpability mitigated because the deliverer is another woman, if anything she should know better.

  21. You know what really blows me away? i seen Valerie Jarrett, and i assumed she was Persian……………….i actually had to have someone explain to me that her parents were black………..

  22. and another thing that offends me,,
    a few years ago that fat slug belted out the worst, disrespectful version of that national anthem i have ever heard……and soon as she came out for Trump, that went away…

  23. So comparing someone to a monkey is only racist if the person is not white? Isn’t that the very definition of a double standard?

    Yes, but that doenst matter.

  24. So comparing someone to a monkey is only racist if the person is not white? Isn’t that the very definition of a double standard?

    Yes – because that’s what racism (and sexism and anti semitism and any type of prejudice) is. Because the ‘joke’ is about appealing to racist sterotypes of a particular group. Prejudice is all about double standards – that’s the point. Racist jokes are just that – the point of the punchline is that it confirms to the stereotype.

    All this dancing on the head of a needle trying to provide hierarchical primacy to protected classes, quite a spectacle.

    Not really – it’s just ‘don’t be racist’. We can have a different discussion about people who are just mean. I’d personally say that I’m more comfortable with ‘meanness’ than ‘racism’ – and I guess that was kind of the social acceptance until now – but happy to have that discussion about what types of discourse we are comfortable with in the public sphere.

    Also – Rich – Samantha Bee’s bit wasn’t sexist just because the meanness was aimed at a woman. Had she said that Ivanka should get back in the kitchen – then that would be mean and sexist. (Maybe there’s an argument that the C word is rooted in misogynistic patriarchal structures of ownership, but I’m thinking that feminist theory isn’t what you’re talking about.)

  25. Not really – it’s just ‘don’t be racist’.

    I got a better idea, how about we address the specific words used and not play the amazing Kreskin when it comes to other people’s motivations and biases.

    but happy to have that discussion about what types of discourse we are comfortable with in the public sphere.

    Again, since there are those that can find racism under every rock, a better approach would be address the specific word or act and go from there. Words like the N word and the C word have no place whatsoever in civic discourse and anyone that defends their use in any context are bigots.

    Maybe there’s an argument that the C word is rooted in misogynistic patriarchal structures of ownership

    Bingo!!!

    This word was never acceptable, on any level, unlike say the N word which could be used inter racially, although I suspect even that is not a good idea today. Targeting a specific body part indigenous to women only it was coined and used as a direct attack on women originated by men in the most misogynistic way possible.

  26. Again, since there are those that can find racism under every rock, a better approach would be address the specific word or act and go from there.

    I didn’t think I was going to have to explain why calling a black person an ape was racist, but, OK. If you want to go down that route. The tweet read:

    “muslim brotherhood & planet of the apes had a baby=vj”

    So firstly we see that she wasn’t making a statement about what Jarrett looked like. She didn’t say – If the Muslim Brotherhood and the Planet of the Apes had a baby – I think the resulting creature would look a lot like Valerie Jarrett. Have you noticed he specific facial features?”.

    She said that mixing a dangerous ideology with an ape* in fact WAS Valerie Jarrett. So the two things that make up VJ are a) A dangerous Ideology and b) A ‘lesser’ primate.

    So she’s calling Valerie Jarrett an ape. An ape with a Sunni Islamist ideology.

    Now there is a history to black people being described as animals – from colonialism to slavery to the racist jokes of Roy Chubby Brown (look him up 🙂 ) – and the animals they are most often referred to are Apes. People who think black people are animals are generally referred to as racist. Roseanne did so. Will thinks she didn’t realise the association – which is also the route that Rosanne herself is going down.

  27. I didn’t think I was going to have to explain why calling a black person an ape was racist, but, OK.

    Sorry, you went there on your own.

    If you want to go down that route.

    I didn’t, where in any of this did I defend the tweet? My comment was in response to your ,”Just don’t be racist”, which is rather meaningless considering the aggrieved state many on the left find themselves in.

    Yes, I know the history with associating black folks with monkey’s, and in that context I do think it was a racist tweet, how could you think otherwise? My comments did not even address her tweet, it was about the free pass the left gives on certain bad behavior while holding other bad behavior as sacred cows. You seemed to think that I was defending one while I was actually calling attention for the need to condemn all this shit.

  28. My comments did not even address her tweet, it was about the free pass the left gives on certain bad behavior while holding other bad behavior as sacred cows.

    My bad – I misunderstood your point. But yes, you see the racism in Barr’s tweet, and you even have a neo-feminist reading of the contextualisation of the C word. Welcome to the club. Your hackey sack is over there, the drum circle begins at 3, and just let Jacinta know your preferred pronoun.

    Could you explain this a little bit more:

    My comment was in response to your ,”Just don’t be racist”, which is rather meaningless considering the aggrieved state many on the left find themselves in.

    To be clear on my position – I think you’re conflating two things. Rosanne did thing a (was racist) Bee did thing b (be mean*). I find thing a worse than thing b – and I’m happy to have a debate about it and have my mind changed.

    *I realise this word might underplay your opinion on the severity of the comment – just can’t think of a more appropriate one. Vile?

  29. Oh and Rich – I respect the out of your position on the C word. I don’t personally have the same view, but I do respect yours.

    And do not google Roy Chubby Brown.

  30. Again, all this offence in response to someone saying cunt, and any opinion about racism, it all rings utterly hollow when you know of Trump’s blatant history and misogyny and vote him POTUS. I mean, why bother with the pretense that it matters at all? Who are you trying to fool other than yourself?

  31. The ape slur is Racist Language 101. Who are the people comparing it to the Dubya example trying to fool? Where does it fit into the history of racist white oppression FFS?

  32. Because the ‘joke’ is about appealing to racist sterotypes of a particular group.

    Wow. So you happen to know that Barr’s comment was all about appealing to racist stereotypes, but Maher’s wasn’t. I didn’t realize you were a mind reader, that’s fascinating.

    I’ve never seen someone miss the blatant hypocrisy of a double standard so thuroughly.

  33. Welcome to the club

    Ahh, Since I am older than you (I suspect) and have had my sensibilities directed by a moral compass calibrated at an early age, I was a member of this club long before you. Unlike many this is not virtue signalling for me, I lived through the 60’s and witnessed it first hand. Yes, I was pretty young but I survived the mean streets of Oakland solely on my hoop skills. I have lived on both sides of the street.

    Could you explain this a little bit more:

    Gee, does this really need further explanation? OK, Maybe because you do not live here it is not as obvious. There are entire books written on the topic, go youtube a few of Shapiro’s videos. Race relations in America is pretty bad right now. Obama was supposed to be the great conciliator, the bridge that made MLK’s vision of a colorless society a reality. But he failed miserably because he could not carry MLK’s jock strap and had his own biases blurring that vision.

    There exists today a coterie of race hustlers that make a living on MSNBC and CNN telling black people that they are victims of white privilege, the deck is stacked against them, they can not succeed in White America on their own God given abilities, they need the Democratic party to be in power to even the playing field and give them what they are OWED because of past sins. Black people can not be racists, only white people. They literally see racism under every rock, they need to because it is their livelihood, it pays the bills.Ta-Nehisi Coates, Michael Dyson, Tavis Smiley, Joy Reid, Jemele Hill, I could do this all day, race pimps who earn a good living seeing racism everywhere. Here is just one example;

    http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/heres-all-the-innocuous-things-that-suddenly-became-racist-in-2017

    The old joke ,”You know you are winning an argument with a liberal when he calls you a racist”, this is smothered in reality.

    Look at all the racist controversies over Black Panther?

    You probably missed this;
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/10/i-am-woman-racist-dove-ad-not-a-victim

    Google “Trump racist”, or McCain racist, Romney racist, Cruz racist, Limbaugh racist, Hannity racist, Shapiro racist…………………it never ends. The point being is this, the left screams racism at the drop of a hat to the point that it has literally lost it’s meaning. Many on the right look at it as a badge of honor, a white flag waived by the opponent because they have nothing left and just got their ass kicked in a debate.

    Sadly, there still exist today examples of racist words and actions, not like these;

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/10/i-am-woman-racist-dove-ad-not-a-victim

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/12/27/hate-crimes-and-hoaxes-10-campus-stories-debunked-in-2017.html

    This whole kneeling controversy was started on a false premise about race, Hand Up Don’t Shoot. Fortunately more black people are ,”Leaving the plantation”;
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCS2b87SbiM

    The soft bigotry of low expectations, the Democrat curse on minorities.

  34. There has to be some way to make Trump even more racist since his policies keep improving the quality of black people’s lives.

  35. Even more racist than what? Huh?
    The drop is just a continuation of the trend, if you don’t cherry pick you’d see it. It’s a good thing, but it has absolutely nothing to do with Trump’s clear history of racism. You really need to be willingly blind not to acknowledge it. You can argue it doesn’t matter somehow, or play some sort of what-aboutism game, but denying is just loony tunes.

  36. Lurking, I think you’ve nicely summed up the quality of the available responses which avoid reality. It’s a pattern through his life. Just like his attitude towards women. There are racists and mysogynists in all political parties (that’s certainly a reality).

  37. https://twitter.com/sallykohn/status/785633172771966976?s=19

    Where was all this pearl clutching over naughty words at the Trump rallies? Isn’t this how “regular working class Americans” talk anyway? Why the ivory tower elitism? On one hand it’s a shame that Roseanne is cancelled because it reflects their lives, but then on the other hand someone being called a cunt is beyond the pale (to the point where the abuser-in-Chief’s administration is telling them to cancel Bee’s show)? The actual fuck?

    I mean, I knew you’d effectively all given up with pretenses, but there’s clearly still some work to do.

  38. This thread pretty well sums up the theory I have that the two political spectrums are speaking different languages these days.

  39. The drop is just a continuation of the trend, if you don’t cherry pick you’d see it.

    So all of the fearmongering that Trump wasn’t going to destroy the economy was baseless? In spite of his “clear history of racism”, he still serves the interest of ALL Americans?

    What’s the BFD?

    It’s a good thing, but it has absolutely nothing to do with Trump’s clear history of racism. You really need to be willingly blind not to acknowledge it.

    Why? Because of things he did in the 80’s? If he’s such an evil and virulent racist, when are we going to see it start manifesting itself in his policies?

    Where was all this pearl clutching over naughty words at the Trump rallies?

    Oh, really? We’re going to start going by what complete randos do instead of liberal celebrities on network television? Okay, I’ll go tit for tat with you there.

    For all of your claims about how terrifying Trump supporters are, where is your concern for the people who showed up at Trump rallies and started violently assaulting people like these Heroes of the Resistance attacking a defenseless woman right here?

    I hope you understand that the sort of dehumanizing rhetoric that you and Samantha Bee and the much of the rest of the anti-Trump Left spout leads directly to this sort of thing.

    On one hand it’s a shame that Roseanne is cancelled because it reflects their lives, but then on the other hand someone being called a cunt is beyond the pale (to the point where the abuser-in-Chief’s administration is telling them to cancel Bee’s show)? The actual fuck?

    It’s the vicious hate speech that’s the problem, especially because it leads to violence. If hate speech isn’t to be tolerated, then I see no reason why hate speech from the Left should go unpunished. We’re done playing by your rules.

  40. This thread pretty well sums up the theory I have that the two political spectrums are speaking different languages these days.

    I don’t. I think it’s just that one side is accustomed to being allowed to engage in abusive and violent rhetoric while the other is relentlessly censored for even the slightest hint of it.

    They seriously see absolutely nothing wrong with what Bee or Colbert or anybody else does as long as they’re opposed to “racists” or whatever. They don’t really care what anyone says or does as long as they think the proper thoughts.

    This is the Totalitarian Left.

  41. Nazi.

    Yes, according to Google. Which is itself the single most terrifyingly totalitarian and left-wing organization in the Universe.

  42. Didn’t really serve the interests of the 4600 dead Puerto Ricans.

    Ted Nugent isn’t a rando. He called Hillary a ‘toxic cunt’ and yet was invited to the WH.

    Dehumanizing rhetoric? LOL, you VOTED for dehumanizing rhetoric, it’s a well known and central part of what Trump is. He spent the entire campaign doing it. You literally have no leg to stand on, again.

    Yes, vicious hate speech is a problem, especially because it leads to violence. So don’t vote for it. You voted for a guy who retweeted Jack Posobiec FFS, the Pizzagate guy, the guy who took a ‘Rape Melania’ sign to a rally. Again, your comments completely lack legs, because if you genuinely cared about them you wouldn’t have been (and wouldn’t be) such a strong Trumpian.

    Also, as cress points out repeatedly, calling someone a cunt is mean, but it’s not racist hate speech.

  43. Didn’t really serve the interests of the 4600 dead Puerto Ricans.

    It wasn’t Trump’s idea to have the Puerto Rican truck drivers go on strike or for officials to hoard emergency supplies.

    Dehumanizing rhetoric? LOL, you VOTED for dehumanizing rhetoric

    I voted against the candidate who called half the country “deplorable”. Most politicians know that you never, ever insult ordinary Americans unless you want it to haunt you forever. Clinton, however, was an especially incompetent one with great hatred in her black heart.

    Also, as cress points out repeatedly, calling someone a cunt is mean, but it’s not racist hate speech.

    All of it’s okay or none of it’s okay. Let’s apply our standards rigorously. I care because the other side uses fake outrage to silence my side even as it applies its own version of hate speech to further its goals. It uses street violence to prevent opposition campaign rallies, relentlessly tries to shame us using the tools of mass media, cheers on Silicon Valley as it censors and manipulates information against us.

    Yes, I think it’s perfectly fair for me to demand that your influential voices be silenced for what their hateful rhetoric leads to.

  44. Yes, I think it’s perfectly fair for me to demand that your influential voices be silenced for what their hateful rhetoric leads to.

    I think that the proper response is a call for consistency. You don’t really want all voices silenced, for that is the only way for that to work. You know that. Not too long ago you were lamenting that comedy wasn’t funny anymore. It cuts both ways, it really does.

    I wince at shit that I used to think was hysterical. Most comedy stands the test of time but there is a reason that Andrew Dice Clay disappeared ala ‘Little Boy Blue; he needed the money’. Pedophilia stopped being funny a long time ago.

    Face it, 25 years ago we were all making fun of Roseanne Barr because her show wasn’t nearly as funny as the equally offensive Married With Children. The only good thing that came out of that shitshow was John Goodman. Both shows ran out of gas in the late 90’s and shouldn’t be revived.

    I’m off to rewatch Eddie Izzard’s Dressed to Kill, my husband just rented it.

  45. These are good points, pfluffy. My opinion is that ALL of it should be okay and let the market decide. In the case of Samantha Bee, it pretty much is already.

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/firing-samantha-bee-would-be-pointless-because-liberal-comedy-has-already-collapsed

    The point of view I’m speaking is one that’s gaining popularity among the Right and I’ve bought into it. The thinking is that the Left has become hyper-aggressive and is using its dominance in the culture to threaten the careers of anyone on the Right. Not just celebrities, even randos like the guy who made that .gif with Trump beating up the CNN logo.

    The only way that the Left will stop is at the point that having the exact same tactics used against it will create an intolerable situation in which they agree to stop.

    CM and ilovecress are obsessed with the idea that only racism should meet this standard or something. As if us being offended is less important than white people being offended on behalf of black people (which is what this really is).

    I’m saying that anytime anyone on the Left says anything hateful, it should be treated the same as when they get their feelings hurt. If they like destroying people’s careers over words, then let them be brave enough to put their own on the line.

  46. Just more evidence that Trump is living rent free in the heads of his biggest critics. What a fool Bee made of herself, a comedy show where she is supposed to be funny, reduced to delivering a vile screed to a loving mother cradling her child.

    CM and ilovecress are obsessed with the idea that only racism should meet this standard or something.

    They parrot the same nonsense that drives their ideology, identity politics is the order of the day, slavishly adhering to their warped worship of intersectionality.

    It really is a limiting point of view. Your virtue is judged by the color of your skin or your sexual orientation. Your identity is your virtue, it is not deeds or actions, it is all appearance and feelings. The higher the victim-hood on the hierarchical scale of victim-hood, the greater the privilege. You get to tell everyone else to shut up because of white privilege. And if they don’t shut up then you get to use violence. You get to shut down (or try to) Trump rallies and conservatives speaking on college campuses. You get to call in bomb threats, commit gross vandalism, shut down freeways, assault those wanting to listen to the lecture, actually riot in the streets. You get to define free speech and confer that right to others to exercise it based solely on what you consider correct and proper. Speech that you don’t like is hate speech, hate speech is violence and you combat violence with more violence like a punch in the mouth, that is social justice to the perpetually aggrieved.

  47. They parrot the same nonsense that drives their ideology, identity politics is the order of the day, slavishly adhering to their warped worship of intersectionality.

    CM and ilovecress are obsessed with the idea that only racism should meet this standard or something. As if us being offended is less important than white people being offended on behalf of black people (which is what this really is).

    All of it’s okay or none of it’s okay.

    Your virtue is judged by the color of your skin or your sexual orientation. Your identity is your virtue, it is not deeds or actions, it is all appearance and feelings.

    Ok. Jordan Petersons greatest hits…. Thanks for outlining what I believe for everyone. It’s easier to win an argument against a point of view that you define. So let’s unpack it a little, shall we.

    So, no. The colour of your skin, sexual orientation, or any other identity doesn’t confer virtue. Your party affiliation, who you work for, where you live, or who you vote for has absolutely no bearing on your virtue. The fact of the thing that happened are what matters. Rich himself admitted that Roseannes tweet was racist, and ABC didn’t want one of their spokespeople to be a known racist. Now whether racism is ok or not isn’t a left/right issue (shut it CM) so this is something we can agree on outside of our identities. Roseanne showed racism, and

    (Note that it’s only my position that Roseanne shared a racist viewpoint, and that ABC are well within their rights to disassociate themselves with her of they so wish. I’d be deeply uncomfortable with the Government calling for her to be silenced, and I don’t do so myself.)

    So why do I think racism is ‘worse’ than swear name calling? Well basically because prejudice (racism, sexism etc) are instructive of a way of thinking that shows the complete lack of critical thinking. In fact it is the absolute display of identity bias from Roseanne that is the problem.

    So I would have no problem with Roseanne calling Jarrett a c*nt. That’s her point of view that’s based (presumably) on rational though, observable truth and her lived experience. Calling her a monkey is based on irrational prejudice, and as such deserves less respect, and yes, scorn.

    So actually the hierarchy isn’t based on the ‘virtue’ of the colour of the skin, but on the ‘virtue’ of the idea set. I really don’t give a shit about who is offended. I give more of a shit about how the ‘offender’ got to their viewpoint. and if it’s through such lazy thinking as racism., sexism, ant-semitism, or how all Trump supporters are dumb, then I’m not going to take them seriously.

    Do I believe that white privilege is a thing? Absolutely. But it’s not about the individual – what I say is that if you base your opinions on what you can rationally observe, without taking the context of the history of race in the USA into account, then you’re forming your opinions without a crucial data point.

  48. Rich himself admitted that Roseannes tweet was racist, and ABC didn’t want one of their spokespeople to be a known racist.

    A base hit on the first but you fouled off the second. Yes, I interpreted her comment as racist but as Will pointed out, it may not have been intended to be racist, we don’t know. If you want to play mind reader and infer motive and intend, be my guest, I don’t think it is fair and may not be necessarily reflective of her intend or feelings, but your side does this so routinely that I can see the impulse to jump.

    Well basically because prejudice (racism, sexism etc) are instructive of a way of thinking that shows the complete lack of critical thinking.

    And I could use the exact same argument in condemning vile misogynistic pejoratives like the C word, and Bee’s use of it speaks to this specifically. Her vile screed was about immigration, yet, instead of making a compelling persuasive argument about that, she insulted a loving mother cradling her child, talk about a complete lack of critical thinking skills.

    One conversation that I have had with my kid over the years was about the importance of speaking well and the ability to communicate effectively through words. These conversations were a direct result of the commonality of his friends in using the F word cavalierly. Those lacking in proper communication skills will use profanity as a fall back or a bail out because that is all they have in their quiver and it reflect poorly on them. He needed to be better, more articulate and more comfortable with vocabulary in general so that he would not use this lazy tactic. I see the exact same lazy tactic on the left, a profanity laced insult is their fall back position because it is easy and requires no critical thinking skills.

    So I would have no problem with Roseanne calling Jarrett a c*nt.

    I also would not have a problem with it wrt her keeping her job but I would view it just like her using the N word. I never held her in high regard anyway so this would just cement my opinion of another low level critical thinker.

    Calling her a monkey is based on irrational prejudice, and as such deserves less respect, and yes, scorn.

    More dancing on that needle head. I will leave the identity political parsing to those that have made a cottage industry out of it. Either bad behavior is bad……………or it’s good, being outraged by one but giving the other a free pass is just nothing more than slavish adhering to your concept and sanctity of intersectionality.

    what I say is that if you base your opinions on what you can rationally observe, without taking the context of the history of race in the USA into account, then you’re forming your opinions without a crucial data point.

    While you are ,”taking the context of the history of race in the USA into account”, take the context of the history of words and their origins in the USA into account, because it you do this you will see that using the C word also reflect opinions without a crucial data point.

  49. Cress, I have another question for you. Do you see a double standard with leftest media organizations retaining their racist/sexist media personalities while screaming for the heads and the terminations of those supposedly on the right for the exact same infractions?

    Joy Reid made racist comments but later apologized and said she has “evolved”, all is forgiven.

    Bee alter apologized for her C remark, all is forgiven.

    Ohlbermann has never apologized for any of his crude profanity laced attacks, referring to Bush as a chimpanzee numerous times, here all is not forgiven because forgiveness was not asked.

    Unlike Reid, Roseanne makes one racist comment and before she can sober up she is fired.

    Actually a few more questions;

    Do you see the concept of Affirmative action as racist?

    How about voter ID laws?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW2LpFkVfYk

    Would you like to try and defend these perceived racist ignorant remarks?

  50. “The collective silence by the left and its media allies is appalling,” Sanders said. “Her disgusting comments and show are not fit for broadcast, and executives at Time Warner and TBS must demonstrate that such explicit profanity about female members of this administration will not be condoned on its network.”

    http://money.cnn.com/2018/06/03/media/samantha-bee-addresses-controversy/index.html

    If even the Trump WH believe woman are a special group, then how can you claim this is something the ‘other side’ does?

    Either bad behavior is bad……………or it’s good

    Again, as an active Trump supporter you clearly believe that bad behaviour doesn’t really matter. And no “but Hillary” isn’t an excuse, it’s a lazy cop-out because it implies you had no other choice.

    Most politicians know that you never, ever insult ordinary Americans unless you want it to haunt you forever.

    Ah ok, so all the people and groups that Trump spent his campaign insulting aren’t “ordinary Americans”?
    See this is why that whole identity politics narrative you Rich have going on above is such bullshit.
    This is a big positive about Trump being elected and people admitting they voted for him (even in places where their vote would make no difference) – it has exposed a lot. I keep referring to Rich’s complaints about Michelle’s private party because now more than ever it looks so incredibly sad and desperate.

  51. Ah ok, so all the people and groups that Trump spent his campaign insulting aren’t “ordinary Americans”?

    Trump typically insulted illegal aliens, MS-13 members, and ISIS terrorists. Yeah, there’s no downside to criticizing them, honestly. The funniest aspect of it is that Democrats started defending those groups.

    Trump’s insults are ingenious on that basis. Hillary’s were just hateful and expressed how she really felt about those of us who aren’t useful to her.

  52. Ah ok, so all the people and groups that Trump spent his campaign insulting aren’t “ordinary Americans”?

    Apparently, all of the ordinary Americans are Trump supporters and “ordinary American” isn’t an identity.

    I do my best not to be judgey, but that is how the right gets the “racist” label without really meaning to. Probably plenty of minorities and LGBTQ’s consider themselves ordinary Americans that just happen to be non-white or gay. Some of them may even fall into Hillary’s “deplorables” camp and got insulted by nearly everyone running in 2016. Indeed, some white “deplorables” are far from ordinary and live on the very fringes of civilization.

    I will always acknowledge that Hilary fucked up with the “deplorables” comment, but the idea that she was the only one going around insulting people is ridiculous.

    The elections this year will tell us a lot about where the country stands and until then we are just guessing. Trump’s numbers are in the low 40’s but the economy will probably be a big factor on things like turnout.

  53. Rich – I’ll answer your question below – but can I just be clear on your position about Bee’s use of the C word.

    And I could use the exact same argument in condemning vile misogynistic pejoratives like the C word, and Bee’s use of it speaks to this specifically. Her vile screed was about immigration, yet, instead of making a compelling persuasive argument about that, she insulted a loving mother cradling her child, talk about a complete lack of critical thinking skills.

    Is your objection to Bee’s use of the C word based on the fact that it’s a profane insult, or on the fact that it’s sexist?

    Or to put it another way are you upset she used the word at all, or that she used it about Ivanka?

    Because if it’s the former, then I respect that position even if I don’t totally agree with it. We’re going through the thing right now, where my youngest has got wind of the magical ‘f word’ (although thats all he knows) We’ve come a long way since Carlins ‘seven words’ – and perhaps the discourse has gone too far.

    if it’s the second, then I guess I respect that too – even if I think it’s a position a little too ‘woke’ for me.

    But if it is the second, then I’m confused. If your problem is that Bee used a word that shouldn’t be directed towards a certain class of people (women), then isn’t that identity politics?

    Either bad behavior is bad……………or it’s good, being outraged by one but giving the other a free pass is just nothing more than slavish adhering to your concept and sanctity of intersectionality.

    That’s assuming that I think the use of the C word towards a woman is sexist – which as I mentioned is a little woke for me. I’m not saying that Bee should get away with her sexism, I’m saying it wasn’t sexist. Maybe I’m not feminist enough.

    Anyway – onto your questions:

    Do you see a double standard with leftest media organizations retaining their racist/sexist media personalities while screaming for the heads and the terminations of those supposedly on the right for the exact same infractions?

    Yes. Joy Reid should go – especially as the context of her comments colours what she reports to be commenting on now. And she lied outrageously.

    Bee – as discussed above, ‘Comedian Swears’ doesn’t really bother me.

    Olberman – again, I put him in the ‘offensive, not prejudiced’ camp.

    (Not sure what the last two questions have to do with the Barr/Bee debate, but I’ll give short answers – if you want to have a longer conversation it might be better in another thread)

    re: Affirmative Action – probably deserves a whole new post, but in a nutshell I think it’s a good idea in theory, and problematic in practice. And definitely shouldn’t be Government policy.

    re: Voter ID laws. Well I guess you got me. The proof is overwhelming.

  54. rump typically insulted illegal aliens, MS-13 members, and ISIS terrorists. Yeah, there’s no downside to criticizing them, honestly. The funniest aspect of it is that Democrats started defending those groups.

    I have never seen a Democrat defend ISIS or any other terrorist, ever. Illegal aliens are on a spectrum and most of them are just people out to make a living and I don’t fault them for it. If they get caught committing a crime, I don’t care if they get sent home. Most people have a “don’t ask/don’t tell” policy when they are roofing their houses or picking their produce, just until they finish and then they are illegal again?

    I have only recently heard the term “MS-13” and don’t really know what it is. I have never heard a “Democrat” defend them or even talk about them.

  55. Or to put it another way are you upset she used the word at all, or that she used it about Ivanka?

    I’m not at all upset, why would I be? This ticks barely a blip on my outrage meter because I’ve seen this same thing a thousand times from the leftest media talking heads, it is their standard fare. As the old saying goes ,”If it wasn’t for double standards, the left would have no standards at all”? I just get amused by all the dancing, all the parsing, all the hierarchical castle building, the bowing to intersectionality when it flies in the face of fair play and objectivity. Ivanka is a big girl, she has heard worse then this and will be fine. I only commented on the Bee controversy because it just so classic, a supposed comedian who can’t craft or deliver a funny joke to further her argument about immigration, she has to blow a gasket and grossly insult an innocent bystander. It’s like in one of Will’s links, a comedian yelling ,”FUCK!!!!!” as loud as he can and expect the audience to give him a standing ovation, pretty hilarious when you think about it.

    And as far as why I see the C word as bad as the N word, I’ve tried several different ways to explain it. For every argument or example you use comparing black people to monkeys, I can provide the same history lesson for the origin and usage of the C word, it is just as hurtful and damaging IMO, but I’m chopping but no chips are flying, we should probably just agree to disagree on this one.

    I don’t want Bee fired, I never watched her dopey show anyway. I would just like bad behavior described as such by those that lately have turned a bling eye as long as the object of their derision is Trump.

  56. “Bling eye”, ha, that’s like a matching accessory for the diamonds you have in your grill.

  57. Cress, Bill Clinton said that the press treated Obama differently because he was black;

    1) Was this a racist comment?
    2) If so then is Bill Clinton a racist, I.e., can we fairly and accurately label anyone who make a racist comment an actual racist himself?

    I have my own answers to these but since race occupies the upper tier of identity politics which you apparently subscribe to, just curious what you think.

  58. You’re just now hearing of MS-13 pluffy? That’s amazing. I’ve heard of them for many years. They are a deadly and inhumanly savage gang of terrorists.

    Trump clearly referred to them as animals and the “press” didn’t fully play the context or his answer so that Democrats could claim he was talking about illegal immigrants.

    That’s how they are “defending” MS-13. Instead of agreeing they should be deported and focus on how to treat non violent illegal immigrants, they take Trumps words out of context to bash him on immigration. Strange times.

  59. I keep referring to Rich’s complaints about Michelle’s private party because now more than ever it looks so incredibly sad and desperate.

    Says the guy that injected a dopey Bill Gates black helicopter conspiracy theory comment that added absolutely nothing to the topic of the post except to reveal his unending TDS disease. You will be wearing that one around your neck for a while.

  60. Lurking, I think you’ve nicely summed up the quality of the available responses which avoid reality.

    No, it isn’t about “avoiding” reality at all. It’s all about dismissing it,ignoring it. Or, to be more accurate, it’s all about ignoring the left-wing reaction to it.

    The problem is that the left has been screaming “RACISM” at the right so loudly and for so long that it’s simply become meaningless. It doesn’t matter what the right does or doesn’t do, the accusation is screamed at us regardless.

    Case in point is Trump’s calling MS-13 members “animals”. Well, the leftist media lied and claimed that Trump was calling ALL immigrants “animals”, thereby “proving” (again) his racism. But his supporters know better, even if the left swallow the lie eagerly.

    The louder the left screams “RACISM”, the more deaf to it the right becomes.

    That’s why i said it doesn’t matter if the left call Trump a racist or say he’s “unfit for office”. And it doesn’t matter how “obvious” and “beyond debate” his “racism” is to the left.

  61. The problem is that the left has been screaming “RACISM” at the right so loudly and for so long that it’s simply become meaningless.

    THIS point cannot be emphasized enough. It has been far too overplayed and has somehow managed to make actual racism more mainstream than it was a decade ago. Even my kids joke with each other by accusing one another of being “racist” for any variety of silly things.

  62. Either all of it is okay or none of it is okay. Unless you can dismiss it as only ‘perceived’…..

  63. Either all of it is okay or none of it is okay. Unless you can dismiss it as only ‘perceived’…..

    I may be indifferent as to whether or not something hurts your feelings, but I will always believe and defend the principle that your opinion is valid and shouldn’t be suppressed.

    If only your side could pledge to do the same.

  64. Your ‘side’ has already pledged to do that? I must have missed that.

    Avoids the issue though.
    “Either all of it is okay or none of it is okay” is rendered meaningless when you start making exceptions, or start saying ‘perceived’. Or when you say it doesn’t matter who Trump abuses or insults, results are all that matter. While at the same time noting Hillary’s brainless ‘deplorables’ comment.
    And again, I thought the POTUS was meant to represent all of America, not just those who voted for him. That’s what I kept being told for 8 years. Again, the rules have all changed. Or that was another steaming heap.

  65. Trump typically insulted illegal aliens, MS-13 members, and ISIS terrorists. Yeah, there’s no downside to criticizing them, honestly. The funniest aspect of it is that Democrats started defending those groups.

    Trump’s insults are ingenious on that basis. Hillary’s were just hateful and expressed how she really felt about those of us who aren’t useful to her.

    Yeah not sure who you’re trying to kid there Will, the campaign wasn’t that long ago that we might have forgotten all the people and groups he abused and insulted. It was a central feature FFS.

    Says the guy that injected a dopey Bill Gates black helicopter conspiracy theory

    Huh? I don’t remember Gates talking about the symbol and warning sign of an alleged conspiratorial military takeover of the United States. What he did mention was his experiences with Bush, which should make any reasonable person shudder. The helicopter anecdote was weird and might be explained away fairly easy, I was interested more in his repeated enquiry about whether HPV was different from HIV. That Gates and his wife found it ‘scary’ how much Trump knew about his daughter’s appearance (obviously in a creepy way) was also entirely consistent with what we know. Even then, I didn’t make a big deal out of it either (just more first hand evidence of a person unfit to be a leader) like you did with Michelle and her private party. So yeah, sorry, you’ll need to try again.

    BTW Rich, I see you’re still seem to think that calling out what someone sees as racism is …… racist. Maybe you could elaborate? Of course you also tried to claim that under Obama race relations had never been so bad. Worse than slavery then.

    THIS point cannot be emphasized enough. It has been far too overplayed and has somehow managed to make actual racism more mainstream than it was a decade ago.

    Being called racist makes you racist?
    The best way to demonstrate that you’re not racist, as the ‘other side’ makes out, is to vote for a racist?
    Of course the most obvious and rational actual explanation about racism becoming more mainstream is having a leader who is racist.

    Nearly a year into Donald Trump’s presidency, a majority of Americans (60%) say his election has led to worse race relations in the United States. Just 8% say Trump’s election has led to better race relations, while 30% say it has not made a difference.

    http://www.people-press.org/2017/12/19/most-americans-say-trumps-election-has-led-to-worse-race-relations-in-the-u-s/

    It’s telling that just after his election that 60% was back at 46%. So you can’t just say that 60% are just blind anti-Trumpers, as presumably they would have said the same thing earlier.

  66. Okay, CM, now that I have your comments on the correct thread, it’s easier to respond.

    Or when you say it doesn’t matter who Trump abuses or insults, results are all that matter. While at the same time noting Hillary’s brainless ‘deplorables’ comment.

    Are you not getting what I was talking about? I said it “doesn’t matter” when Trump insults either criminal or foreign elements, politically speaking or when he attacks another famous person, particularly an obnoxious one. It is an incredibly bad idea for any politician to insult the American people. As in “ordinary Americans”. Full stop.

    The best parallel is Romney’s “47%” observation. He caught a ton of blowback for it and I point to “basket of deplorables” as an example of Hillary’s ineptitude as a politician, not as something that deeply hurt my feelings.

    You’re only looking at whether or not politicians should insult people without regard for who they’re insulting. If you don’t understand why that matters, then you’re as likely to become president as, well, Hillary Clinton.

    And again, I thought the POTUS was meant to represent all of America, not just those who voted for him.

    He does. Which is why the black and Hispanic unemployment rate has been so good that even the New York Times can’t ignore it.

    Being called racist makes you racist?

    When you keep calling moderate people “racist” without any regard to their actual opinions, you create an environment where the extreme elements are more comfortable speaking out. The coarsening of the political landscape by the Left is exactly what led to growth of the Alt-Right. You were so successful in marginalizing mainstream conservatives by painting them as racist, that it made those who enjoy fighting back on equally vicious terms look viable.

    This is exactly why I advocate using your own tactics against your side’s bad actors. Until the center starts to assert responsible norms again, the fringes on both sides are going to control the conversation.

    And yes, that will include applauding a president who does it with relish.

    Yeah not sure who you’re trying to kid there Will, the campaign wasn’t that long ago that we might have forgotten all the people and groups he abused and insulted.

    I don’t expect them to. But they–and you–are mistaken if you think his use of insults is ever going to change my opinion that voting for him was the right thing to do. If it changes, it will be because of his job performance. I’d like to think that it’s possible that the people who have been offended by him will decide that he’s been an effective president if they’re better off in 2020, but if they can’t move past the fact that he said mean things about Rosie O’Donnell, that’s their own lookout.

  67. What he did mention was his experiences with Bush, which should make any reasonable person shudder.

    It should make any reasonable people laugh at such a preposterous conclusion he drew with such little evidence to go by. But after all, he did preface it by noting that he tries to avoid Trump at all costs, now there is real objectivity for you.

    The helicopter anecdote was weird and might be explained away fairly easy

    But it didn’t stop you from swallowing the entire thing, I guess because it fitted neatly into your pre conceived box. Of course it can be explained away easily, if the proper facts were provided, which Bill had none of at the time.

    I was interested more in his repeated enquiry about whether HPV was different from HIV.

    Why? Does it somehow reflect that he is stupid? Could it be an honest mistake or genuine ignorance on the issue? Clearly he is not fit to lead.

    (obviously in a creepy way)

    Obviously.

    was also entirely consistent with what we know

    Please enlighten us on ,”What we know” about Trump being a pedophile, this ought to be good.

    (just more first hand evidence of a person unfit to be a leader)

    Of course, creepy feelings one person gets about another disqualifies that person from the presidency, bizzaro world indeed.

    So yeah, sorry, you’ll need to try again.

    No, I kinda like this one, a nonsensical gut feeling Bill Gates had about helicopters and Trump being a pedophile without actual evidence to base it on and you run with it all the way to the finish line, brilliant.

    Nearly a year into Donald Trump’s presidency, a majority of Americans (60%) say his election has led to worse race relations in the United States. Just 8% say Trump’s election has led to better race relations, while 30% say it has not made a difference.

    I would agree with this, now let’s look at why. You have 50 % of the population (your side) who still can’t accept the results of the election and consider Trump illegitimate so they are all going to say race relations has gotten worse. Then you have 50% (my side) who see’s other side all telling them that Trump is a racist so they must be racist for supporting him, so yeah, race relations now are pretty bad. Of course what would improve them dramatically would be you guys dialing the TDS down a notch (I know, impossible) not lie about what he says (ditto, impossible) like his comments about MS-13 being animals, and show just a tad of civility. If you were honest you would admit that I have written many posts about Trump and my distaste for his lack of civility, his 3rd grade antics, his thin skin and his downright meanness in attacking folks. If I could bring back Reagan, I would, but this is who we have. Many things about him I don’t like, but unlike you I can evaluate on the merits. I can’t change him so I have to live with him.

    And again, I thought the POTUS was meant to represent all of America, not just those who voted for him.

    All those peole that now have a job, have more money in their pocket and a more secure sense of their own future, all these folks would say that he is representing them.

  68. It should make any reasonable people laugh at such a preposterous conclusion he drew with such little evidence to go by.

    What specific conclusions did he draw from his Trump experiences Rich?

    But after all, he did preface it by noting that he tries to avoid Trump at all costs, now there is real objectivity for you.

    Objectivity isn’t even remotely the point to his comments. He’s telling us what his experiences were. To him, they reinforced why he tries to avoid the guy.

    But it didn’t stop you from swallowing the entire thing

    Swallowing it? I have no reason to doubt it. Unlike Trump, my experience is not that Gates lies much much every time he opens his mouth. It is what it is, take it or leave it. Obviously it doesn’t match what you think of Trump (because bizarro-land) so you won’t believe it, based entirely on that.

    Of course it can be explained away easily, if the proper facts were provided, which Bill had none of at the time.

    Are you again trying to say this is all about the helicopter thing? Not sure why you’re obsessing that that part. And as I already said, perhaps there was an explanation for that one. It obviously appeared very strange to Gates, or else he presumably wouldn’t have mentioned it.

    Why? Does it somehow reflect that he is stupid? Could it be an honest mistake or genuine ignorance on the issue?

    It’s reasonably basic yeah, and the fact that he kept asking him is bizarre. But again, it’s just one example.

    Obviously.

    He obviously thought it was creepy. You’re arguing with THAT? Gee, you’re really stuck aren’t you.

    Please enlighten us on ,”What we know” about Trump being a pedophile, this ought to be good.

    A pedophile? Huh? She’s 22.

    Of course, creepy feelings one person gets about another disqualifies that person from the presidency, bizzaro world indeed.

    Again, try reading what I actually wrote. No one thing. But so many examples from so many different people. That’s aside from the first hand evidence we have ourselves, via what he says and tweets.

    No, I kinda like this one, a nonsensical gut feeling Bill Gates had about helicopters and Trump being a pedophile without actual evidence to base it on and you run with it all the way to the finish line, brilliant.

    Based on how astonishingly badly you’ve done trying to turn into something, please run with it. I can then mock you for not knowing what a pedophile is, among your other basic errors.

  69. Sorry Rich, I already pre-empted your predictably desperate and weak explanation for why everything is Obama and the liberal’s fault and none is the fault of the guy with a history of racism, who ran on disunity, was endorsed by David Duke, and believes among white supremacists there are some really great people. You must have missed it. If you’re foaming so much at the mouth that it’s getting in your eyes then it’s time to take a break.

  70. What specific conclusions did he draw from his Trump experiences Rich

    ?

    You really can’t remember what you wrote in your original comment? Go back and re read what you wrote and all the conclusion you drew from a silly unsubstantiated gut feeling Bill Gates had about a helicopter and Trump being a dummy about science and Trump acting like a pedophile . You were the one that posted it and made such a big deal of it, now you play dumb, so classic.

    To see you squirming around trying to defend such nonsense, it is hilarious.

    He’s telling us what his experiences were.

    No, he is drawing a conclusion about why Trump came left the party and came back in a helicopter based on zero evidence, and you bite because it reinforces your TDS and confirms a negative stereotype you have about Trump. The only “experience” he had was that they were at the same party, everything else was supposition and conjecture, but that didn’t stop you from posting it as gospel, so weak.

    Swallowing it? I have no reason to doubt it

    .

    Wait, didn’t you just say in a comment above that there was an easy explanation for this? Make up your frickin mind, either it can be easily explained as not sinister or Gates was correct in his factless based supposition and Trump was doing it for dramatics, which you bought off on initially.

    “It obviously appeared very strange to Gates, or else he presumably wouldn’t have mentioned it.”

    Obviously very suspicious behavior[snicker], so lets think the worst about Trump with zero facts at our disposal, now there is honest arguing for you.

    A pedophile? Huh? She’s 22.

    Sorry pal, you don’t get off the hook that easy. You said several times that Trump’s interest and knowledge about Gates’ daughter was creepy, and then you you say ,”From what we know”, it obviously was creepy. You will have to do better than that.

    That’s aside from the first hand evidence we have ourselves, via what he says and tweets.

    Oh, I see, so by what Trump says and tweets, the rational that Trump purposefully left and party and returned just to make a grand entrance (Gate’s words, based on no evidence at all) because he is so egomaniacal , that his casual conversation about Gates’ daughter was demonstrably “creepy” and that Trump is a total ignoramus in all thing medical, because of tweets, now there is critical thinking for you at it’s finest.

    Based on how astonishingly badly you’ve done trying to turn into something

    That “something” you posted, and now you can’t defend it. A bizarre opinion piece that Gates mentions in a video about feelings and you interject it into a Trump accomplishment post for no other reason than to provide one more example of your TDS.

    I can then mock you for not knowing what a pedophile is

    Gates said that Jennifer had attended horse shows that Trump had sponsored in the past way before he was elected, it was at those horse shows that Trump met Jennifer, so we don’t know how old Jennifer was at any of those meetings. Gates says ,” It was scary how much he knew about my daughter’s appearance” and saying how uncomfortable his wife felt about, then you saying over and over how creepy this is, the implication being that Trump is a pedophile. Then come back with ,”What we know” to substantiate it, but you didn’t substantiate jackshit, you said his actions were creepy based solely on a gut reaction Gates had.

  71. That brings up an interesting thought, Rich.

    If this guy –

    Is portrayed by a black man, is it racist? If he’s played by a white man, is it even more racist? I’m just offended that they can’t win a championship. That’s racist.

  72. You really can’t remember what you wrote in your original comment? Go back and re read what you wrote and all the conclusion you drew from a silly unsubstantiated gut feeling Bill Gates had about a helicopter and Trump being a dummy about science and Trump acting like a pedophile.

    LOL, it was so forgettable I don’t recall what I wrote. Perhaps ‘holy shit’? That rings a bell. Haven’t mentioned it since.
    But you clearly know, so you go ahead and enlighten me. It’s clearly a much bigger deal to you, and you’re the one running this whole thing and making claims.

    Regardless, above you were clearly referring to a conclusion Gates came to. In terms of what I posted, along with very little comment, he reached no conclusion.

    You were the one that posted it and made such a big deal of it, now you play dumb, so classic.

    I’m sorry that you’ve decided to run with this in an attempt to counter the ODS example of you making a big deal out of Michelle’s private party, and that you feel you now have to make shit up . For who, exactly?

    To see you squirming around trying to defend such nonsense, it is hilarious.

    Not sure why I’d be squirming. I’m genuinely confused as to what you think you’re up to on this one.

    Oh, I see, so by what Trump says and tweets, the rational that Trump purposefully left and party and returned just to make a grand entrance (Gate’s words, based on no evidence at all) because he is so egomaniacal , that his casual conversation about Gates’ daughter was demonstrably “creepy” and that Trump is a total ignoramus in all thing medical, because of tweets, now there is critical thinking for you at it’s finest.

    It’s all entirely consistent, yes.

    Wait, didn’t you just say in a comment above that there was an easy explanation for this?

    Me:

    Not sure why you’re obsessing that that part. And as I already said, perhaps there was an explanation for that one. It obviously appeared very strange to Gates, or else he presumably wouldn’t have mentioned it.

    Make up your frickin mind, either it can be easily explained as not sinister or Gates was correct in his factless based supposition and Trump was doing it for dramatics, which you bought off on initially.

    ‘Bought off on’? Again, I didn’t specially isolate the helicopter aspect. Gates thought it was pretty obvious, I have no evidence that he’s wrong. As noted, perhaps there is an explanation for it, be interesting to know what that was, can’t think of anything that makes too much sense. I’m not considering it as an established fact, it was a perception by Gates.

    Obviously very suspicious behavior[snicker], so lets think the worst about Trump with zero facts at our disposal, now there is honest arguing for you.

    Again, I didn’t make a big deal specifically about the helicopter thing, or even specifically mention it at all.

    You’re the only one all worked up over this. What we know is what Gates is telling us. His impression. Which I have no reason to doubt, given how entirely consistent it all is with Trump’s character.

    Sorry pal, you don’t get off the hook that easy. You said several times that Trump’s interest and knowledge about Gates’ daughter was creepy, and then you you say ,”From what we know”, it obviously was creepy. You will have to do better than that.

    What has any of this got to do with pedophilia?
    Do you have any other explanation for what Gates meant, other than that he and wife thought Trump’s knowledge of their daughter’s appearance was creepy? “What we know” is what Gates is telling us. His impression.

    That “something” you posted, and now you can’t defend it.

    You’re trying, desperately, to turn a link I posted about Gates talking to an audience about his personal experiences with Trump, accompanied by a comment such as ‘holy shit’ into something far more than just that. Because you’re desperate to ‘counter’ the example I keep throwing up of your chronic ODS problem.

    A bizarre opinion piece that Gates mentions in a video about feelings and you interject it into a Trump accomplishment post for no other reason than to provide one more example of your TDS.

    It was a video of him speaking to an audience (at a Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation meeting that was broadcasted by MSNBC), not an ‘opinion piece’.
    It was clearly the active post when I saw it.
    Not sure how it even remotely qualifies as TDS, you’d need to explain that. How is it DERANGED that I shared a link to a video doing the rounds of a very prominent/famous person sharing some personal experiences with Trump, and adding something like ‘holy shit’?

    Gates said that Jennifer had attended horse shows that Trump had sponsored in the past way before he was elected,

    No he didn’t say that. FFS Rich. Nothing about what Gates said suggested that it was when Jennifer was a little girl. But I like you’re going out of your way to try real hard to make it sound like I think Trump is a pedophile or something.

    it was at those horse shows that Trump met Jennifer, so we don’t know how old Jennifer was at any of those meetings.

    Likely in 2015 according to this article, so I guess 19.
    https://www.bustle.com/p/bill-gates-says-donald-trump-knew-all-about-gates-daughter-it-was-kind-of-scary-9128873

    Gates says ,” It was scary how much he knew about my daughter’s appearance” and saying how uncomfortable his wife felt about, then you saying over and over how creepy this is, the implication being that Trump is a pedophile.

    Paedophilia is a is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children. There was no indication that she was prepubescent. I certainly took it more generally, that simply Trump seemed to know a lot about what their daughter looked like. Which they found weird/creepy (and probably as much because he thought it was appropriate to talk to them about it). He’s a married man, 40-50 years older than her.

    Then come back with ,”What we know” to substantiate it, but you didn’t substantiate jackshit, you said his actions were creepy based solely on a gut reaction Gates had.

    My ‘what we know’ referred more generally to what we know about Trump’s character.

  73. LOL, it was so forgettable I don’t recall what I wrote.

    Don’y worry, I won’t let you forget, it was so textbook TDS, the perfect example. A post written listing a few Trump accomplishments, do you talk about anything in the post? nope, do you refute anything written in the post? nope. Instead you provide a video where Gates has a theory based on no evidence that Trump purposefully left the event so he could “make a grand entrance” on his helicopter. Then he implies, based on this creepy gut feeling he had, that Trump had a unhealthy interest because he was super nice to his daughter. Then for good measure makes fun of Trump because he got HIV and HPV confused. Now none of this had anything to do with the post written, but your derangement must be fed, so you posted this nonsense, bravo.

    he reached no conclusion.

    Of course he did, did you even listen to the video that you posted? He said Trump was clearly driven away but he returned in a helicopter because he wanted to make a grand entrance, Gates’ exact words. Does he know why Trump left the event? Nope, Does he know that Trump returned by helicopter because he wanted to make a grand entrance? Nope, it is all speculation but you lapped up every drop.

    and that you feel you now have to make shit up

    What did I make up?

    It’s all entirely consistent, yes.

    OK, good to know. So from now on we can make shit up as we go and do not need evidence or proof of anything because of past tweets makes future allegations true, even if they aren’t.

    Gates thought it was pretty obvious, I have no evidence that he’s wrong.

    Correct, both you and Gates have no evidence one way or the other, yet you thought it important to post the video anyway because it reflected poorly on Trump.

    Again, I didn’t make a big deal specifically about the helicopter thing, or even specifically mention it at all.

    You posted a video of Gates talking about Trump returning to the event in a helicopter for the purposes of making a grand entrance. What, we aren’t supposed to pay attention to what he said? Then why did you post the damn thing?

    Do you have any other explanation for what Gates meant

    How about a warped impression based on the fact that Gates didn’t like him anyway, said that he always avoids him, and now he wants to score some points with the audience by implying some malevolent intend when none really existed? Is that easily explained enough for you?

    You’re trying, desperately,

    No desperation, you laid this one right in my lap.

    Because you’re desperate to ‘counter’ the example I keep throwing up of your chronic ODS problem.

    Ah yes, the old ,”I know you are but what am I?” tactic, you got me.

    No he didn’t say that. FFS Rich.

    In the video Gates said that Trump met Jennifer in a past event or events because she attended his horse shows in Florida. Was this last year, was it 10 years ago, we don’t know, because Bill was not present when the two met, we know this because Bill said he never met Trump until after the election. But it’s still creepy because you said it was creepy.

    Likely in 2015 according to this article, so I guess 19.

    Maybe, but we don’t know that because your article said the year of the first meeting is unclear.

    Which they found weird/creepy (and probably as much because he thought it was appropriate to talk to them about it). He’s a married man, 40-50 years older than her.

    Well, we know that Trump was super nice to her because Bill used those exact words. Yes, they found his prior knowledge about their daughter “scary” but based on what exactly” Did he say something inappropriate? Did he do anything inappropriate? Or was he being super nice and an absolute gentleman but based on prior tabloid stories of Trump’s behavior with other women they projected that past behavior onto his perhaps innocent interest in their daughter? Again, we don’t know, but no matter, the mere presumption based on noting at all is good enough for you to post the video anyway.

    My ‘what we know’ referred more generally to what we know about Trump’s character.

    So what we know about Trump’s character is good enough for you to believe any future allegation, even if there is no evidence that it is true, because tweets and what we know? Actually, you don’t have to answer this, It is clear to me that you will believe anything as long as it reflect poorly on him.

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