Recently, we’ve had a fair amount of discussion about Trump’s statements, attitudes, and perceived racism and sexism.  I’ve made the argument that none of it matters.  Two sociology researchers from the nearby University of Kansas have found that this is a consistent attitude among Trump supporters.

It’s worth it to read it all.  It’s a short piece.

Recently, I have noticed where you guys have cited some example of something Trump has said or done and tried to use it to confirm that he’s a racist.  From there, we’re all supposed to…uh…I don’t honestly know what we’re supposed to do.  Change our vote to the evil candidate and call a do-over on the 2016 election?

What the professors found is that there isn’t anything that Trump can say that will bring his supporters to that point.  #NeverTrump, late night comedy, and the droid-fucking aficiandos employed by Disney are spinning their wheels by trying to find that “ah ha!” moment that will finally “enlighten” us.  It is as I’ve said before: as long as Trump is doing what he was elected to do his moral failings with Stormy Daniels, public insult fights that would make a 90’s rapper call for civility, and tendency to say things that he thinks as true that actually aren’t do not matter.

Whether that’s right or not is fine to debate, I suppose.  But I’m comfortable telling you that I don’t care at all what anyone thinks of Trump as a person.  As long as he doesn’t try to overthrow Assad, appoint a liberal justice to the Supreme Court, or bring back Obamacare and fully implement it (which even Obama wouldn’t do) I’m not going to regret my vote for him or consider voting for anyone else in 2020.  Samantha Bee and Stephen Colbert can suck my ass.

The only way Trump loses support is if he betrays the coalition that elected him by reneging on the promises that got him elected, no matter how abhorrent you think those were.  But please, by all means, keep complaining about how he’s a pussy-grabbing Cheeto.  We’re totally going to start listening any day now.

31 comments

  1. Shitshow, cuckshow, shit-cuckshow, their arguments are so compelling.

    Whether that’s right or not is fine to debate, I suppose.

    I might be wrong but it sounds like you think this is a recent phenomenon, it’s not. We all remember the contortions the left put themselves in defending Bill Clinton; bimbo eruption, it’s only sex, a right wing conspiracy. Hell, even Vox says that blind eye allegiance was misguided and harmful, ultimately contributing to a rapacious culture of impunity allowing decades of sexual offenses by men to go unreported and unpunished.

    They kept their mouths shut and looked the other way because he was one of them, on their side and was moving their ideological football down the field.

  2. I think the Trump detractors are confusing being a good president with being an effective one. A good president can be the one who means well, but doesn’t get much done and is regarded as a failure. An effective president is the one who gets stuff done and gets remembered by history, and thanked by the people.

    Nice guys don’t always make the history books. Trump has been who he is for decades, what the left is really scared of is him making them completely irrelevant to future generations who might inherit the benefits of Trump’s successes.

    Trump has gotten, or is at least trying, to get stuff done. He has done what he said he would do with regards to taxes and trade, is at least trying on immigration reform, and has been attempting an historic peace accord with North Korea. The economy is so good even Democrats are admitting they could lose because of it. He may not be a great person, but he may be remembered in the long run as a great president.

  3. He may not be a great person, but he may be remembered in the long run as a great president.

    As I would put it, a great man isn’t always a good man and doesn’t really need to be.

  4. This was actually in a DM I sent you, and I think it’s why the left has completely misread the electorate, and why the left is fucked for the foreseeable.

    There was a comment I left a couple of weeks ago ( in the context of McCain) asking Rich if he’d vote for a candidate that would execute his agenda, even if he was deplorable. His emphatic ‘of course I would’ was a bit of a wake up call to me I think – where all the lefts arguments about Trumps character can be countered with “yeah, but Gorsuch”.

    And for us hippie leftists – it’s difficult not to get frustrated with the sudden change in the rules of the game. It’s like it’s the fourth quarter and we just found out offsides isn’t a thing, but we don’t have the ball.

  5. Exactly cress, well said. We spent 8 years reading and responding to comments about Obama which apparently are now rendered meaningless because. ….none of that even mattered, it was all bullshit, a complete waste of time. Or the rules have completely changed. One or the other. Which is it?

  6. Also, this whole ‘percieved’ racist/sexist thing you’ve got going on. Prior to Trump that shit WAS considered racist/sexist. But somehow once he’s your guy it’s only ‘percieved’. WTF is THAT?!
    Sometimes I think I should just ignore everything (just quit reading, watching, checking anything political) until sanity has returned. Have your little ‘break’ from it and we can regroup later….

    BTW for the last little while I’ve noticed I have to enter my name and email on every post, any idea why?

  7. BTW for the last little while I’ve noticed I have to enter my name and email on every post, any idea why?

    Ditto.

  8. We spent 8 years reading and responding to comments about Obama which apparently are now rendered meaningless because. ….none of that even mattered, it was all bullshit, a complete waste of time.

    It’s not that much different now versus then. Conservatives lobbied all sorts of criticisms at Obama–the big difference being that now all criticisms by the president are racist and back then all criticisms of the president were racist–but none of it stuck.

    It wasn’t until voters started to regognize that Obama’s talk wasn’t translating into results that his poll numbers dipped and his party was decimated in elections. He didn’t deliver and that’s why many of the voters who voted for him twice ended up voting for Trump in 2016.

    I’m not sure the rules have changed. Most Americans seem to shut out the controversies that we endlessly debate and only care about how they’re doing personally. As long as they’re doing well under Trump, they’ll just laugh off his tweeting.

    I mean, you have to acknowledge that Trump has been under constant assault by the media for three years now. His poll numbers keep going up. The media adored Obama and his poll numbers peaked early, dropped, and didn’t recover until his last year in office when he largely checked out to become an adored figurehead.

    Trump is bulletproof as long as he’s seen as “fighting evil” and to a massive number of Americans, that includes the Deep State, NFL kneelers, countries that screw us on trade, North Korea, MS-13, corporations that offshore jobs, and Rosie O’Donnell.

  9. BTW for the last little while I’ve noticed I have to enter my name and email on every post, any idea why?

    We have top men working on it.

  10. Trump is bulletproof as long as he’s seen as “fighting evil” and to a massive number of Americans, that includes the Deep State, NFL kneelers, countries that screw us on trade, North Korea, MS-13, corporations that offshore jobs, and Rosie O’Donnell.

    The main reason for their discontent is that their early prognostications of a shit show turned out to be premature and demonstrably false. So whenever something good happens they have to pee in the punch-bowl, like commenting about Bill Gates and helicopters.

    Part of their constant focus on things racial, a bigger part then they care to admit, is that Obama was supposed to be the great conciliator in this regard. Since he actually made things worse in this area it’s like they got snookered and now they are embarrassed.

    So with exploding heads when it comes to all things Trump, ditto the same reactive antics when it comes to perceived racial infractions, full blown screeds are now the order of the day and somehow it’s all Trump’s fault and his deplorable followers.

    I’m not sure the rules have changed.

    When it comes to ignoring the sins of your guy in office when he is doing things you agree with, it hasn’t changed, at all. But the racial stuff it has, sadly. Where before, at least a conversation could start with an attempt to even try for a meeting of the minds, not anymore. Now we retract to ideology of our tribe and blindly defend that position.

  11. It’s not that much different now versus then.

    Ah, yeah it is. Light years. To the point where it’s comical.

    It wasn’t until voters started to regognize that Obama’s talk wasn’t translating into results

    LOL, right, he dug the US out of a massive hole and handed over a booming economy, but those aren’t ‘results’. Are they only ‘perceived’ results perhaps?

  12. Now that straight out abuse and insults of opponents and groups is established as a norm (and actually actively encouraged), it will be interesting to see what happens when the shoe is on the other foot. Not that I think the Dems would elect someone like that, so it’s probably a fantasy (I think at some point sanity will prevail as people realise this is not the way to go). It’s unimaginable to think what the reaction on the right would have been if Obama had said or written even 10% of the shit Trump has. I remember clearly how McCain was abused by those on the right for being too polite to Obama. People just wanted him to be rude and insulting, even if it meant they didn’t win. Being rude and insulting was paramount. Obama had his ‘clinging to their guns and religion’ line, which caused great offence and gnashing of teeth, but little else. It remains a bizarro-world situation.

    The main reason for their discontent is that their early prognostications of a shit show turned out to be premature and demonstrably false.

    It’s a flaming shit show, as I keep noting. Trump inherited a strong economy though, which has persisted to this point. That buys a lot of ‘ah well, that other stuff doesn’t really matter’ with a lot of people, I totally agree on that point.

    So with exploding heads when it comes to all things Trump, ditto the same reactive antics when it comes to perceived racial infractions, full blown screeds are now the order of the day and somehow it’s all Trump’s fault and his deplorable followers.

    There’s that perceived thing again, LOL. It’s not real. Actual blatant racism now isn’t real. Bizarro-world

    Where before, at least a conversation could start with an attempt to even try for a meeting of the minds, not anymore. Now we retract to ideology of our tribe and blindly defend that position.

    LOL. You mean like claiming that when someone says something might be racist, that is in itself racist?

  13. LOL, right, he dug the US out of a massive hole and handed over a booming economy, but those aren’t ‘results’.

    Even if there were any reason to think that it’s only at the end of 8 years of trying that the US economy recovered because of (rather than in spite of) Obama’s policies, you still have the problem that he did not deliver in 2010, 2012, 2014, or 2016 in any way that saved his party from being all but wiped out nationally.

    He was ineffectual, wouldn’t or couldn’t work with the GOP, and promised more than he could deliver.

    Yes, the American electorate is unforgiving to weak leadership.

    Now that straight out abuse and insults of opponents and groups is established as a norm (and actually actively encouraged)

    Your side’s fault.

    it will be interesting to see what happens when the shoe is on the other foot.

    Gee, I guess being able to hammer us relentlessly on all forms of media without us being able to air our own viewpoint outside of a small number of outlets just isn’t good enough.

    I remember clearly how McCain was abused by those on the right for being too polite to Obama. People just wanted him to be rude and insulting, even if it meant they didn’t win. Being rude and insulting was paramount. Obama had his ‘clinging to their guns and religion’ line, which caused great offence and gnashing of teeth, but little else.

    Yes, we wanted McCain to use some of the venom that he was well-known for applying against conservatives against his opponent. We didn’t want him to insult liberal voters, as Obama insulted conservative voters with his “guns and religion” remark.

    Why can’t you tell the difference between punching in the public sphere and punching regular people?

  14. it’s only at the end of 8 years of trying that the US economy recovered because of (rather than in spite of) Obama’s policies

    By any reasonable standard that’s an extremely weak narrative, unsupported by the vast majority of economists.

    He was ineffectual, wouldn’t or couldn’t work with the GOP, and promised more than he could deliver.

    The GOP made it clear from Day 1 that they wouldn’t work with Obama. McConnell used to pretend he was too busy to attend meetings with Obama. No President or world leader in history has made the sort of outlandish promises Trump has. But apparently they’re just seen as ‘aspirational’ or ‘campaign rhetoric’, and he’ll only be judged on the ones that he’s seen to achieve. Again, bizarro world. The rules have all changed.

    Your side’s fault.

    Riiiiiiiiight.
    Bizarro world.

    Gee, I guess being able to hammer us relentlessly on all forms of media without us being able to air our own viewpoint outside of a small number of outlets just isn’t good enough.

    As I say, I doubt it will happen. I think this is just an aberration. But yeah, I think it would be another level of ugly (of course all justified via martyrdom).

    Yes, we wanted McCain to use some of the venom that he was well-known for applying against conservatives against his opponent.

    Specifically by calling him out a Kenyan socialist Muslim and so forth. Ah well, you only had to wait for one more guy to lose before you got your Insulter in Chief. Not too long in the whole scheme of things.

    We didn’t want him to insult liberal voters, as Obama insulted conservative voters with his “guns and religion” remark.

    Just to spread misinformation and bigotry and hate by giving legitimacy to outright lies.

    No doubt about it though, Obama made a rookie mistake when he said it. The whole quote was:

    You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

    So he was essentially making the same argument you are: when people believe they are under attack they will react in any way they can. These reactions mentioned by Obama are exactly the things Trump played to, and it was successful enough to give him the right numbers where it mattered.

    Why can’t you tell the difference between punching in the public sphere and punching regular people?

    Again, you’re so heavily qualifying the whole “bad behaviour is bad behaviour” claim that it’s rendered meaningless.
    Suggesting a Mexican judge must be biased again you because you’ve insulted Mexicans (and obviously they’re not a race that can act professionally) is punching pretty widely.
    Also: “How stupid are the people of Iowa?”
    Also, ripping off contractors is surely punching regular Americans. As is boasting how you can abuse your power over regular Americans to point where you can just grab them by the pussy. He even mocked his ‘regular American’ voters by saying he could shoot someone and he wouldn’t lose votes.

  15. handed over a booming economy

    I about choked on my own spit at that one.

    “Booming” indeed. Weren’t you just chastising someone for trying to rewrite history?

  16. By any reasonable standard that’s an extremely weak narrative, unsupported by the vast majority of economists.

    But weren’t the Democrats telling us that Trump would tank the economy? What happened with that?

    The GOP made it clear from Day 1 that they wouldn’t work with Obama.

    You’re right. They did. They did it to Bill Clinton too once they took the House in 1994. But he still worked with them because he was an effective politician. Obama never was.

    Suggesting a Mexican judge must be biased again you because you’ve insulted Mexicans (and obviously they’re not a race that can act professionally) is punching pretty widely.

    Trump was using a tactic to trap the judge into either ruling in his favor or being labeled as a biased judge. You never seem to notice that Trump is quite good at setting up these win-win situations for himself.

    Also: “How stupid are the people of Iowa?”

    And was it used against him by his opponents? Yes, it was. Did Trump lose the Iowa caucus? Yes, he did. Does this support my point that it’s never a good idea to insult voters? Why yes, it sure does.

    Again, you’re so heavily qualifying the whole “bad behaviour is bad behaviour” claim that it’s rendered meaningless.

    I’m not qualifying it. The political Left fully endorses actions like this in the name of fighting perceived racism.

    http://thefederalist.com/2018/06/04/huffpost-ruined-entire-family-one-persons-tweets/

    As long as your side is that vicious against whatever it determines for itself to be racist (which, from our experience, is absolutely everything) then we are justified in using scorched earth tactics in return. If that’s what it takes to make you guys stop, so be it.

    As I’ve said, I would much prefer that all of it be okay. But you guys just can’t let it be. So none of it will be okay until there’s an agreement to de-escalate.

    Also, ripping off contractors is surely punching regular Americans.

    He’s a cutthroat businessman. If he deals with our foreign rivals that ferociously, great.

    As is boasting how you can abuse your power over regular Americans to point where you can just grab them by the pussy.

    Just like Hillary Clinton’s husband and best friend Harvey Weinstein were doing.

    He even mocked his ‘regular American’ voters by saying he could shoot someone and he wouldn’t lose votes.

    And he’s right, according to the article under discussion. All he has to do is manage the economy, not start any mindless military interventions, and keep demolishing the Obama legacy and he can’t go wrong. The US will prosper as your hurt feelings never fade.

  17. I about choked on my own spit at that one.

    Yeah, I know. I’m to the point that if he’s not going to take this discussion seriously, then I’m not either. Hence some of my own over-the-top assertions.

  18. Booming economy? lol

    Mitt Romney was as vanilla as they come and he was compared to Hitler during the campaign.

    I think conservatives have just had enough. We can’t run anyone with conservative value and that won’t be labeled misogynist, racist etc. So, enough with vanilla politicians with no spine as it doesn’t matter to the left.

    As Will says, it’s time to just match the game being played. The rules haven’t changed, they’re just now being used by both sides.

    And again, booming economy?

    Both sides are so far apart I’m at the point that there’s no reason to even discuss things.

  19. Yeah, I know. I’m to the point that if he’s not going to take this discussion seriously, then I’m not either

    The main problem here is when you plant your flag on planet Shitshow before the guy was even sworn in, and you think he is a subhuman racist who like Nazi’s should be punched in the face, and you think he is illegitimate because the Russians, it is hard to be at all objective.

    Factor in that every accomplishment we laud, he scorns because it is undoing the Obama legacy brick by brick. Lower taxes, pshaw, they should be raised. More people employed? That’s not good, we need them dependent on the government, that is their power base. Autonomy and independence should be fought tooth and nail, the nanny state is necessary to spread the wealth around more equitably. If we are going to save the planet we have to get rid of cars and implement carbon taxes; an all powerful government, fully funded and properly weaponized with massive (necessary) regulations for the benefit of all, this is the only path to Valhalla (gratuitous viking reference, for affect).

  20. “Booming” indeed.

    Strong then. From a deep deep hole. Good try at deflection though, all of you.

    But weren’t the Democrats telling us that Trump would tank the economy? What happened with that?

    More deflection.

    Trump was using a tactic to trap the judge into either ruling in his favor or being labeled as a biased judge. You never seem to notice that Trump is quite good at setting up these win-win situations for himself.

    Notwithstanding that you’ve avoiding the actual point, why would you consider that to be a good thing? It’s just another example of how he has no respect for law. I thought the law mattered to you?

    He’s a cutthroat businessman. If he deals with our foreign rivals that ferociously, great.

    Deflection.

    Just like Hillary Clinton’s husband and best friend Harvey Weinstein were doing.

    Deflection.

    And he’s right, according to the article under discussion.

    Deflection. He did what you claimed he didn’t.

    Yeah, I know. I’m to the point that if he’s not going to take this discussion seriously, then I’m not either. Hence some of my own over-the-top assertions.

    I assumed that none of you have been trying from the start and all the current deflection is just a continuation of that. But if you want to take an official dive now because of word choice which is irrelevant to the point, that’s fine.

    We can’t run anyone with conservative value and that won’t be labelled misogynist, racist

    Lame excuse but that’s a convenient way of excusing misogyny and racist. You have a candidate who is clearly both (there is significant evidence of both) and yet it’s still ‘perceived’. Is it that you’re not able to actually tell whether a candidate is misogynist or racist? That might explain why you think it’s applied to everything.

    Both sides are so far apart I’m at the point that there’s no reason to even discuss things.

    Agreed, it’s just bizzaro world. I sincerely hope you can regain your sanity at some point.

    The main problem here is when you plant your flag on planet Shitshow before the guy was even sworn in

    I sure did think it would be a shitshow, and it has proven to be. Weekly. But I’ve only said it when yet another example surfaces. It’s not unfounded or random (or about the equivalent of a private party).

    and you think he is a subhuman racist

    Never said he was subhuman, I would never stoop so low. Is this part of a new making-shit-up tactic because that’s all the other side does? It’s easy to excuse your own behaviour like that huh.

    who like Nazi’s should be punched in the face,

    Never said anything remotely of the sort, Alex.

    and you think he is illegitimate because the Russians,

    Never said anything remotely of the sort, Alex.

    it is hard to be at all objective.

    Hard to be objective when you just make shit up, Alex.

    Factor in that every accomplishment we laud, he scorns because it is undoing the Obama legacy brick by brick.

    Where did I do that? You really are on a roll now.

    Lower taxes, pshaw, they should be raised.

    And again, this really is a true Trumpian post. Again, it’s no surprise you’re a fan.
    When Obama was in power I argued the corporate tax rate should be slashed.

    More people employed? That’s not good, we need them dependent on the government, that is their power base.

    I can literally see the frothing forming at your mouth.

    Autonomy and independence should be fought tooth and nail, the nanny state is necessary to spread the wealth around more equitably.

    I’m sure the straw man is finding this horribly uncomfortable.

    If we are going to save the planet we have to get rid of cars and implement carbon taxes

    Never said anything of the sort.

    Identity politics FTW there Rich, well done.

  21. Deflection

    Deflection

    More Deflection

    Deflection

    Deflection

    Perceived Deflection

    Deflection

    See, when you do this it’s hard for me to quote what I’m responding to. When you’re just going to respond to everything with one word, could you maybe number them or say “Curiel Deflection” so anybody who’s trying to follow along with this madness can keep track?

    The big takeaway from the KU study is that Trump supporters are perfectly aware of the things Trump says that give you boo-boos. They’ve been aware of it since 2015 and they still voted for him.

    You can’t even say that it’s not that they weren’t aware of what he was saying, because as he’s been doing the things he said he was going to do during the campaign, they’ve given him their continued approval. They’ve even remained unwavering as he’s continued saying boo-boo hurt comments.

    I’m telling you that, based on this research and what we’ve been able to see from polling, bitching about Trump’s insults and calling him a racist does not work. It won’t stop him. It did not stop him in the GOP primary (when I voted for Cruz as the last viable non-Trump GOP candidate), it didn’t work in 2016, and it’s not even going to work in the 2018 midterms either.

    Seriously, CM. Watching you and the rest of the Resistance double-down and triple-down on the same failed talking points again and again is the greatest example of Einstein’s definition of insanity in modern politics.

    Instead, you drop in these observations about how the Obama years were the Best of Times. The voters, where it mattered, didn’t share your rosy outlook. How do you explain people who voted for Obama in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania voting for Trump? Racism? If there was so much racism, why couldn’t millions of black voters be bothered to show up and vote against Trump? Racism?

    Even Obama doesn’t share your outlook, if Ben Rhodes’s book is to be believed (and that’s a heavy “if”). He too felt like those voters had been left behind. They saw their full-time jobs go to China and India and had to take on part-time jobs at 30 hours a week even as their health insurance premium doubled because of Obamacare.

    But to ask you about it, “Oh, they all became racists.” This is either supreme arrogance or abysmal stupidity.

    You know, it’s sad. You have this forum here where you get the benefit of regularly discussing current events with pro-Trump Americans without it devolving into death threats and flame wars. You could maybe get something useful from it. I don’t mean that you have to start agreeing with us, but I would think you could at least use the insights you gain to at least wonder if something motivates us other than “You know what’s awesome? Racism! Break me off a piece of that lynch mob stuff!”

    And you wonder why I blame your side for the destruction of public discourse. This has been the sum of our conversations for the past few days.

    Me: “Here’s a study that shows that Trump voters are indifferent to the Left’s complaints about him being a racist and sexist who insults people.”

    You: “Trump is a racist sexist who insults people and you don’t care! But what about the people who do care, huh?”

    Me: “What about them? If the exact same people vote the exact same way in 2018 and 2020 in the same numbers, then Trump and the Republicans keep winning. I would think anti-Trump people might be interested in figuring out why none of their arguments and complaints about the insults and bad character traits have stopped Trump and what issues they could focus on to put a dent in his coalition.”

    You: “They’re racists and sexists who like it when he insults people! Here’s a bunch of examples of him saying insulting things!”

    Me: “In this example, Trump was using a tactic that would result in an outcome that would benefit him either way. In fact, he’s doing something with Mueller’s investigation that’s like that in his tweets. In fact…”

    You: “That’s a deflection!”

    Me: “It’s not a deflection. I’m saying that Trump regularly hones his messaging and that it might be useful, again, for anti-Trump people to understand how Trump communicates so that they could more effectively counter his methods instead of constantly suggesting that everything he says is a random string of words pulled out of the ether.”

    You: “That’s a deflectiondeflectiondeflectiondeflectiondeflectiondeflection!”

    Me: “Is there an echo in here? Zoom, can you look into that? I don’t remember installing the echo plugin”

    You: “Trump is insulting and offends people and I’m never going to stop using it as the basis for my criticism.”

    Me: “Even though it won’t change a single Trump supporter’s mind?”

    You: “Yeah!”

    Me: “Even as Trump achieves what he said he would during the campaign and benefits politically from a rising economy?

    You: “That’s right!”

    Me: “Even though it totally won’t work and you’ve had it explained to you that it will ensure Trump’s re-election and the continued dominance of the Republican Party in American politics?”

    You: “Yes. I know that as long as we call Trump and his supporters racists and sexists, they’ll start agreeing with us, despite past experience and overwhelming evidence to the contrary.”

    Me: “….”

    Me: “Okay, run with that then.”

  22. Strong then. From a deep deep hole.

    Again making me almost choke on my own saliva. Apparently your definition of “strong” or “booming” is “not in recession.” Yay, Obama! The slowest recovery from a recession in the US ever. Way to go! So strong.

  23. Sorry Will but that in no way reflects the discussion. I feel bad too, since you put so much effort in.

    Zurvan I’m not arguing with you about it, the point remains – the economy was in free fall when he took over and in good shape when he left. Of course the share of the spoils went to the top and the same old people missed out so they voted Trump so the rich could get tax cuts and they could lose their health care, instead of the unsustainable rust belt industries returning like Trump promised.

  24. Notwithstanding that, I’ve argued previously that Presidents have little to no postive impact on the economy in the short to medium term. Specifically I pointed out that the graph shown in this link doesn’t tell us that Democrats are better for the economy because their bars are higher, for the reasons set out
    https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/07/why-the-economy-grows-faster-under-democrats-than-republicans/375180/

    They also wrote about it at 538.
    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/a-presidents-economic-decisions-matter-eventually/

    Both written pre-Trump, in case that matters to anyone.

  25. Weak cheese there CM. That’s like saying the President has no influence because ultimately it is Congress that writes the bills and passes the legislation that affects economic growth or economic stagnation.

    So by your argument it is disingenuous to call it Obamacare because he did nothing to make it the law of the land.

    It is the “Trump” tax cuts that is powering this new global economic dynamo;

    http://money.cnn.com/2018/01/22/news/economy/imf-trump-tax-cuts-global-economy/index.html

  26. Zurvan I’m not arguing with you about it

    You’re not arguing about it because you were flat out wrong. Twice. This is where you say, “Sorry, I was mistaken.” Declaring someone is trying to rewrite history elsewhere, then peddle the line that the economy was “booming” or “strong in 2016 is so clearly the pot calling the kettle black, you must be blind.

    they voted Trump so the rich could get tax cuts

    I’m sick of this bullshit being peddled. I received a sizable tax cut that made an impact to my financial picture. I am not rich. If you don’t get that, it’s a sign of TDS.

  27. Zurvan, on the economy you keep missing the other half of the equation – where it was when he started. It was undeniably far far healthier when he left, albeit with the same structural issues. That was my point.

    Rich did you read your link? 0.1% difference, and that’s a prediction.

    This makes more sense…

    “It’s too early to tell” probably should be the watchword on tax reform at this point. Even if we had perfect data on capital spending and buybacks for every business in the country, it would only be a few months’ worth of data. The impact of tax reform can only really be judged over a much longer period. After several years, economists will be able to conduct studies evaluating the tax cut’s impact, much as they now are studying the impact of past policy changes.

    Having to wait is frustrating for people who want an instant (and often partisan) answer to the question of whether Trump’s tax reform was good or bad. But it’s the only rational way to evaluate the policy’s true effects. Measures like investment as a percentage of gross domestic product, as well as wages, will be crucial to knowing whether the tax reform really helped average Americans or flowed into the pockets of the rich. In the meantime, we know little more than we knew before the law was passed.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-05-07/wait-before-declaring-trump-s-tax-cuts-a-win

  28. Americans have now been collecting post-tax-cut paychecks for more than two months — and they still don’t like Donald Trump’s signature legislative achievement. In fact, as Republicans fan out across the country Tuesday for “Tax Day” rallies celebrating their law, the vast majority of voters still refuse to accept that their taxes have even gone down. But don’t take my word for it — take the American Enterprise Institute’s. In a new polling analysis, the right-wing think tank concedes that “overall opinion [of Trump Tax Cuts] is still more negative than positive,” while an overwhelming majority of Americans say that their paychecks haven’t grown conspicuously fatter.

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/04/the-trump-tax-cuts-unpopularity-is-a-crisis-for-the-gop.html

  29. You and Pelosi both, two peas in the same pod, nothing but “crumbs”. All the anecdotal evidence like what Zurvan said, and thousands of others, go right out the window because it does not conform to ,”Trump incompetent”.

    You don’t like that link, I can give you a couple hundred more;

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/12/trump-economys-sustained-growth-pace-unlike-anything-seen-in-13-years.html

    Yes, it is too early to give Trump a grade on the economy for his entire term, for the obvious reason that his term(s) is not over. But I dispute your 2 premises that Presidents can not impact the economy and that these tax cuts are crumbs.

    You probably have nothing kind or positive to say about all the other good things going on in this economy like low unemployment rate, real folks getting real increases in their take home pay, black unemployment the lowest since they started taking stats on the subject. Not a day goes by when I don’t see some article in the WSJ about the improving jobs market;

    https://www.apnews.com/bd000c5fe0a343bbb3072a82119759b6/Stocks,-interest-rates-climb-as-job-market-keeps-improving

    These are real jobs for real people, not made up talking points from those unhappy about all the good news because they want to take the power back.

    Rich did you read your link? 0.1% difference, and that’s a prediction.

    Ah, no, that’s not what it said;

    The International Monetary Fund said Monday that it expects global growth of 3.9% this year and in 2019, an increase of 0.2 percentage points over the rates it predicted in October. It would be the quickest expansion since 2011.

    The fund said that changes to the U.S. tax code approved in December were responsible for roughly half of the boost to growth

    Did you get that? Trump’s tax cuts responsible for rising global growth, or is the IMF a political tool for the Trump administration?

    Reading down I see where you got that 1 percent (jeezus, you are so dishonest that you can’t even quote the 1.9 percent figure accurately, you just have to round it all the way down to 1). But even here you failed because that figure was a new estimation from their own forecasts which were already super rosy anyway due to the new tax cuts, but yes, they were moderated down.

  30. Zurvan, on the economy you keep missing the other half of the equation

    And you keep missing the fact that you were wrong. Twice. No economist worth his salt (or really anyone with an impartial view of the economy) would have said in 2016 that the economy was “booming” or “strong”.

    But then I thought you weren’t arguing about this?

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