As pfluffy observed, it was a bad week for public discourse here in the United States.  I’ll go further than she did though.  I think this was possibly the worst week we’ve ever seen as far as discourse goes, at least on par with the week after Charlottesville.  Does anybody want to disagree with that?

There was Kathy Griffin, who comes second only to Britney Spears in the “highly public nervous breakdown coupled with a bad haircut” league.

Not to be outdone, Peter Fonda shocked everyone by proving that he isn’t dead airing out his darkest, perverted fantasies about women and children.

Remember back when we discussed an Ambien-addled Roseanne making a vaguely racist comment and whether it was appropriate to utterly destroy her career over it?  The innocence of yesterweek, I tell you.  Significantly, his Twitter account is still active and he hasn’t lost his verified checkmark.  He was never even suspended.  Milo, Roger Stone and numerous voices on the Right were banned from Twitter for far less than this.

I mean, Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey had to apologize for eating a chicken sandwich.  But threatening violence against women and children to the point that the Secret Service opens a criminal investigation on it?  Meh.  Perfectly acceptable use of the platform, I suppose.

There haven’t been any other consequences for Fonda.  His movie is still being released and there’s no reason to believe that Hollywood regards this as anything but heroic.  But please tell me again why what Roseanne did was worse.  I’m just not seeing it.

Oh, and Trent Reznor doesn’t understand what the words “vulgarian” or “ironic” mean.

“He’s a fucking vulgarian,” Reznor said of Trump. “Aside from whatever ideological beliefs he has — if he has any — he’s a grotesque person who represents everything I hate.”

Did Reznor take elocution lessons from Otto West?

As a reminder, the DNC wants to partner with Hollywood to get its message out for the midterms.  Brilliant.  Hollywood is creatively bankrupt and the DNC is literally so.  This is less desperate and more tone deaf.  Hollywood is already sufficiently politically outspoken in its messaging.  Even the failure of the last Star Wars movie hasn’t brought it home yet, but it should be clear to everyone else that the audience Hollywood hopes to influence has long since tuned it out.

For the DNC, it seems to me that there’s no difference between their message and Hollywood’s already.  The only area of disagreement seems to be that the DNC wants to overthrow Trump through constitutional processes while Hollywood wants to do it violently.  Again, they’re both out of sync with American voters who seem to be increasingly wondering why anyone would want to overthrow Trump at all.

With unemployment low and the economy strong, Americans feel more positive about the future. In the new poll, 40 percent said the United States was headed in the right direction; 49 percent said it had gotten off on the wrong track. In February, that judgment was a darker 29 percent-60 percent.

I believe it was Sean Trende with RCP who said that the “right direction” question is the key determinant of a wave election.  As long as it stays at or above 40%, there will be no Blue Wave.  Keep an eye on that.

Unfortunately for the Democrats, they have nothing else to run on except hating Trump.  This is why Hollywood’s Resistance voices are reduced to threatening children.

And this.

This has officially gone too far.  I don’t care how mad you are about family separations at the border.  You are the worst sort of person if you threaten a child because you’re mad about a policy issue.  You are a shitbag if you approve of other people doing it to score political points.

Hollywood doesn’t deserve all of the blame, nor does the DNC.  I think the lion’s share belongs with the news media who similarly can’t understand why the American public has started outright despising it when it isn’t merely treating it with suspicion or ignoring it.

The press is ginning up this lunatic hatred with its falsehoods and misrepresentations.  It’s infuriating that they spent a couple of days bitching about Melania Trump wearing a jacket that was apparently a stab at them.

I don’t blame her at all.  As I said, the news media has lied about the immigration issue–and many, many others–so aggressively and maliciously that A-list actors are now calling for stalking her son and giving him to pedophiles.  And don’t tell me that we shouldn’t beware of the impulses of crazed actors.

I agree with this.  The agitations that we’re seeing out of Fonda, Griffin, and others isn’t political commentary and nobody can credibly hide behind that justification.  They’re incitements to violence and ought be treated as such, complete with criminal charges.  They’re not even stopping with Trump and his family.  They’re turning their threats against ICE employees and before long, I’m sure it won’t be long before they’re trying to justify threatening the children of Trump supporters if they’re not reined in.

This is the logical and inexorable path the Resistance is on, and I don’t care if you disagree.  Fight me.  Anti-Trumpism is evolving into a terrorist movement right before our eyes.

Less threatening but equally confrontational are the tactics being directed against female members of the Trump Administration.  The DHS Secretary was driven out of a Mexican restaurant by a mob and the Press Secretary was denied service in a restaurant in Virginia.

I’ve made my attitude on whether or not politicians are fair game for criticism when they’re out and about in public clear.  They are.

I ask the question: shouldn’t (Sean Spicer) be subject to scrutiny by regular people who he encounters?  People whose lives are affected by the policies of the Administration for which he is basically responsible for defending on absolutely everything it does?   No prominent person should ever be subject to threats or violence, but isn’t it fair to question them?  To speak “truth to power” when we come face to face with it?

I say yes.

Keep in mind that I live in flyover country.  Some of you on here live in DC or LA or NYC.  You don’t think anything of encountering famous people, bu t it’s very rare for me.

If I were to bump into, say, Lena Dunham at the massage parlor, I’d love the opportunity to politely tell her that I think she’s a sick, twisted creature who should be institutionalized before she stabs someone and starts writing haiku on the walls in her own shit.

That said, I’m bothered that the mob who hassled Secretary Nielsen included a Justice Department employee.  If there was ever a time that the DOJ didn’t need a spotlight shined on the partisan behavior of its employees, the week after the IG Report would probably be it.

As for Sanders, I think it’s fine that the owner of the restaurant chose not to serve her.  Honestly, I don’t want to eat anything I’m given by people who hate me.  I’m extra polite to fast food employees for a reason, man.  But it works both ways.  If they want to make a political statement, then I also think it’s fair play for Sanders to discuss the incident knowing that the Right’s mob will harass the restaurant right back.

Personally, I think mixing politics into your business is a bad idea, but it’s normal these days.  Disney, CNN, and others push their political goals even as profits drop because of it.  If a restauranteur wants to risk destroying her business to send a message, that’s her right.  It’s also my right to go on Yelp and complain about the time I went to her restaurant and the waitress had alcohol on her breath and flecks of vomit on her shirt.

It doesn’t have to even be true, using the Time magazine and CNN standard.  Isn’t that the message being filtered down from the Resistance?  Any and all immoral acts are justified because Trump won the 2016 election.  Isn’t that right?  Let us all behave at our worst then.  Is that how we want it to be? The Resistance says “yes”.

My advice to anyone who thinks that terrorizing the children and grandchildren of politicians and even government employees is a good idea, for any reason, is to stop and look down. That’s the mouth of the abyss gazing into you. That hatred and anger you’re seething with is going to suck you down into it. Once it does, it is very, very hard to come back from.

We all know people who throw out hateful and incendiary rhetoric. I’m not talking about mere insults. I mean threats, intimidation, and calls for violence. They’re in a dark place and they’ll drag you down with them. For your own good, you should shun them if you can.

I’ve said it before and I’ll repeat it: there’s been a part of me that wonders if it wouldn’t be better if the Democrats won the House this year. Maybe, just maybe, the Resistance would be less deranged if it felt like it had some control and a sense of representation in Washington. It would be nice if the Left acted like it has a stake in society again, wouldn’t it?

This week has crushed that feeling for me. I’m more convinced than ever that Trump’s opponents are complete lunatics who shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near the levers of power. All indications are that they will use control of the House to impeach the president for any tenuous reason they can find and fully realize Russia’s goal of sowing chaos and discord. The Democrats and their increasingly mentally unstable Resistancetards have given me no reason to believe they want anything else but destruction.

Those of you who are sane liberals should be worried that I have nearly abandoned all hope that any semblance of sanity remains from America’s political Left, as you know I’m a reasonable guy (or at least try really hard to look like one). Understand that it’s the endless screeching of the Resistance that’s doing this, not anything Trump has said or done.

I am, and always will be, open to discussing ideas. Unfortunately, I have this growing sense that the anti-Trump crowd has none and has instead morphed into a real Party of Hate. I’m not seeing ideas. I’m seeing an emerging pattern of violence and intimidation and it has to stop. I’m not saying this to insult, but to warn.

Let’s not be fooled though. The entire immigration kerfluffle this week was entirely pushed by the Democrats and their Fake News bomb-throwers to distract from the IG report and any other “bad” news. As the probability that Trump won’t be impeached since he either hasn’t committed any crimes or that the investigation against him is so hopelessly compromised that there’s no chance of it happening, I’m sure we’ll see more rage.

The IG report itself was a dud. My main fault with it was that it didn’t go nearly far enough in its recommendations, beyond some corrective training. Yes, I know investigations are ongoing. It just doesn’t seem like there was much point to this report.

That said, where the report was a dud, the Congressional hearings were bitchin’.

Horowitz performed very well, being forthright and providing full explanations for the scope and meaning of this report (which admittedly was subject to some ass-covering edits by the DOJ and FBI).  However, I have a high degree in confidence in what he’s doing and hope he continues.

Will Congress or Sessions act on it?  I’m somewhat less optimistic.  Sessions did well by firing McCabe and I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt.  Congressmen and Senators, though, only talk tough.  It remains to be seen if they will follow through on their vows to punish Rosenstein for his obstruction.  To me, it’s easy enough.  Hold a vote to find Rosenstein in contempt. If a majority agrees, send the Capitol Police to Rosenstein’s office and march him out in handcuffs.  Lock him up.  Yes, they do have the authority to do this, but do they have the will?

The Executive branch can’t be counted on to balance itself, however much you might want Trump or Sessions to start firing people.  Congress exists for this purpose as a coequal branch.  If it is ever going to reassert itself and its powers for the good of America, this is as good a time and cause as any.

That’s about all I have for now.  The immigration debate took up most of the oxygen in this week’s news cycle (as intended) and I’ve devoted enough space here to keep the debate going if anyone wants to.

What news didn’t get enough attention this week?  What do you think will dominate the news cycle this next week?

60 comments

  1. DOJ blinked. I seem to have missed this one.

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/doj-gives-congress-classified-documents-russia-probe-142052316.html?guccounter=1

    The Justice Department says it has given House Republicans new classified information related to the Russia investigation after lawmakers had threatened to hold officials in contempt of Congress or even impeach them.

    A spokeswoman for House Speaker Paul Ryan said Saturday that the department has partially complied with subpoenas from the House Intelligence and Judiciary committees after officials turned over more than a thousand new documents this week. House Republicans had given the Justice Department and FBI a Friday deadline for all documents, most of which are related to the origins of the FBI’s Russia investigation and the handling of its probe into Democrat Hillary Clinton’s emails. Ryan spokeswoman AshLee Strong said the department asked for more time and they will get it — for now.

  2. If you’re going to elect and support a President who is frequently flagrantly uncivil and obnoxious, who gives his opponents degrading nicknames, who deals in pejoratives and stereotypes, whose followers like him *because* he’s uncivil and obnoxious to people they hate and wear shirts that literally say “Fuck your feelings” … maybe you shouldn’t be surprised when the public discourse takes a turn for the worse.

  3. Ah, but see, Hal, I’m old enough to remember the George W Bush presidency. He was maliciously lied about, compared to Hitler, and frequently the subject of fantasies about assassination and he didn’t insult people. How do you explain that, since we’re playing Whatabout today?

    Maybe when the political left incessantly lies, defames, and threatens you shouldn’t be surprised when the right gets frustrated that presidents don’t fight back and makes it a point to elect someone who does.

    Let’s be realistic. The left would be doing these antics toward any Republican president.

    It’s why we need to agree now that inciting violence and harassing children is beyond the pale. I’m not going to let you hide behind the fact that Trump hurts your feelings with mean tweets to let you justify terror.

  4. Keep in mind Hal the war hero McCain decided to call people who simply wanted something to be done about our broken immigration system crazies, and yes we were getting frustrated since many GOP bullshitters ran on that platform only to ignore it after they won. Anyone not left of center was already deemed a racist asshole long before Trump, and the GOP was too chickenshit to seriously combat this bullshit leftist argument. I really think that is a big part of the reason Trump won the primaries to begin with. Talk about go fuck yourself. He won on a platform custom built for him by go fuck yourselves form the ruling class. Not to mention every other bullshit promise the GOP has run on. This isn’t to say Trump has fixed spending problems or other major issues, but at this point people have become so sour to it all just about any type of progress anywhere would be a huge victory. Anyhow, I think you live in a bubble and are still clueless why things have gone the way they have. It’s been decades of politicians telling people to go fuck themselves. Just because they had a smile on their face when the did it doesn’t mean shit.

    Nice to see you think advocating child rape is now acceptable though as it’s apparently appropriate in this case? What a creep. And yes, I’m going to say you advocate child rape. You had the chance to see all that was posted here, and chose to excuse it.

  5. And yes, I’m going to say you advocate child rape. You had the chance to see all that was posted here, and chose to excuse it.

    Beyond Sony’s flaccid condemnation, I haven’t seen any anti-Trumpers denounce what Fonda said or any of the other incitements. If anyone has any examples and show me that this has been happening, please send me some links, because I genuinely haven’t seen it.

    Instead, I’m seeing defenses of it similar to what Hal has posted.

    I don’t want to give liberals the broad brush of being the pro-child rape party. I just want us to collectively acknowledge as a society that there are some things that have no place in our political discourse and that people who utter them should be discredited and driven out of public life.

    American politics have always been rough and tumble. I didn’t cry when Ivanka got called a cunt or Wolfe savaged Sarah Sanders (though I did highlight the hypocrisy of the reactions to what Roseanne said). I’m not even saying that sending mobs to harass cabinet officials is off-limits. The pro-life movement has been doing that sort of thing to Planned Parenthood employees for years. It’s not really that unusual.

    But if you are going to try to justify violence–particularly against women and children–because Trump insults Rosie O’Donnell or whatever, then you are abandoning your own humanity and deserve whatever is said about you.

    Damn child rape apologists.

  6. It’s why we need to agree now that inciting violence and harassing children is beyond the pale

    No, that’s beyond the pale. I didn’t think I needed to but I’ve done so frequently on Twitter, saying specifically that attacking Baron is out of bounds (attack other Trump kids is OK, since they’re adults and part of the Administration). S8, I’m glad to see you haven’t lost you’re stupid tendentious “gotchya hur-hur routine” with the new blog. I equate Fonda to Ted Nugent: he’s a lunatic who has always been saying obnoxious vile stuff. In his case, an old senile lunatic. Who really cares about his desperate attempt sto remind people that he’s actually not dead, just not getting any work because he’s a piece of crap. (And numerous anti-Trumpers *have* denounced Fonda and have specifically hit liberals who go after Baron). This is classic “balloon juice” fallacy: if you don’t denounce something, it means you approve of it.

    I frequently called out the Left for the calumnies they hurled against McCain, Bush, et al. But (a) it’s not like you guy were restrained in the calumnies hurled against Obama; (b) you never called out Right Wing idiots when they said vile things about Obama or Clinton and accused me of sucking Obama’s dick when I did; (c) Trump’s amanuensis was a guy whose website frequently hurled racist vulgar abuse not only at Obama but Michelle and the kids; you guys didn’t denounce it so I guess you approve of it. That’s how it works, right? (d) if you guys can’t see a difference between F-list celebrities being obnoxious shitheads and the *President of the United States* being an obnoxious shithead, I can’t help you.

    To me, this hypocrisy is best embodied by Newt, who’s been on TV this weekend bewailing the state of dialogue. This is a man who has spent thirty years as a rhetorical bomb thrower, accusing Democrats of being Communists and Nazis, accusing Obama of being a “Kenyan anti-colonialist” and saying Democrats want America to be destroyed and turned into an Islamist state. He’s one of the people who helped get us here.

  7. PS – you should read McArdle’s piece about how we’re in a political equivalent of a tit-for-tat game with constantly escalating incivility. Also, be sure to check out the comments where all the liberal commentators are “BUT CONSERVATIVES STARTED IT!” as though history began in 2008.

  8. No, that’s beyond the pale.

    Good. That’s all I want is an acknowledgment that there’s no justification for it. None.

    I didn’t think I needed to but I’ve done so frequently on Twitter

    Not everybody here follows you on Twitter. I read everything you tweet and respect you enough to know that you don’t condone monstrous things. But you got opened up to S8’s criticism because you appeared to be saying that everything identified in the post was okay because Trump says mean things.

    I equate Fonda to Ted Nugent: he’s a lunatic who has always been saying obnoxious vile stuff.

    That’s a fair comparison. Nugent at least made a commitment to tone down his rhetoric, but I question if it will hold up into the next Democratic presidency.

    https://www.aol.com/article/entertainment/2017/06/16/ted-nugent-hate-speech-rhetoric-political-gop-republican/22362622/

    Of course, he did it after a crazed Democrat tried to assassinate several Republican congressmen. You can call Nugent a lunatic, but at least he has demonstrated that he understands that violent and inciteful rhetoric has consequences. That’s more than I can say for the left at the moment.

    This is classic “balloon juice” fallacy: if you don’t denounce something, it means you approve of it.

    No, it’s when one is invited to denounce something awful and instead tries to justify it by pointing to some other cause that one can be said to approve of it. We’re taking the position that it’s wrong and should be called wrong, which you have done now.

    I frequently called out the Left for the calumnies they hurled against McCain, Bush, et al. But (a) it’s not like you guy were restrained in the calumnies hurled against Obama

    I agree with this. We have to acknowledge what we’ve done wrong in the past. I did it here:

    http://www.ridiculousvikingstuff.com/2017/03/07/were-we-ever-that-annoying/

    I can acknowledge that we were awful and often unfair to Obama, but I stand by what I said in that post from last year when I said that it’s worse coming from Trump haters now because they make it so personal. There was never a movement to attack Obama supporters as the direction is heading now with Trump’s. See the Donny Deutsch interview if you need an example of what I’m talking about: http://dailycaller.com/2018/06/22/msnbc-support-trump-immigration-nazi/

    Trump’s amanuensis

    Uh….

    Also, be sure to check out the comments where all the liberal commentators are “BUT CONSERVATIVES STARTED IT!” as though history began in 2008.

    We did start it, at least as far as relentlessly attacking and trying to impeach a president goes. And yes, Newt was ground zero of that effort.

    The personalization of politics and the idea that any act of violence, intimidation, deception, or what-have-you is justified even against employees, family members, and possibly voters for the president one disagrees with is a new phenomenon and entirely owned by the political left.

    I don’t want to point fingers and play the blame game. I just want everyone to agree that this has gone far enough already and it’s going to get worse if we don’t start collectively condemning it in the harshest terms. Hiding behind Newt, Trump, or whoever being meanies in the past cannot be used to excuse this dangerous new phase in shitty political discourse. People, maybe a lot of people, are going to die over it.

  9. Yes, it has gone too far. Someone has to take the first step off the crazy train and now is as good a time as ever. Whatever we said about Obama, no one took shots at Congresspeople over it (Giffords was shot, but that guys was crazy). And did you see what Maxine Waters said this weekend? I mean, Waters is crazy but she is a Congress Woman. I think that’s like a hundred times more important than everything Peter Fonda has ever said put together.

  10. As I said though, what Waters proposed isn’t really new.

    I think I’ve mentioned this anecdote before, either on RVS or another blog, but many years ago I worked security at a local Planned Parenthood. On my first day there, the security officer who trained me specifically warned me to make sure that I wasn’t followed when leaving for the day because the protesters would follow people home and protest in their neighborhoods.

    He wasn’t exaggerating either, because this really did happen to one of the other security officers a couple of years prior. The guy realized he was being followed and confronted the protester, who said “You’re killing babies in there!” The security officer allegedly replied with, “I never killed any babies but I will kill you if you keep chasing me!”

    The attitude of the protesters was that if you worked for PP in any capacity, you were as guilty as the abortion doctors themselves. The receptionist even had blood on her hands. Sound familiar? “If you work for Trump, you’re a Nazi!”

    They weren’t fucking around either. Twice during my employment, somebody came around in the middle of the night and shot out the windows of the facility (nobody was there either time). First time I think I ever met an FBI agent was when one came down to investigate in the morning after one of the incidents.

    So dwell on that little nugget if you will. The anti-Trump left is behaving like radical anti-abortionists and all in the name of “protecting the childrens”.

    Yes, I know that pro-lifers are generally peaceful and most of the protesters I encountered did nothing more than pray outside of the building. But that movement also produced Eric Rudolf and plenty of other terrorists.

    I’m not going for “my side is morally superior” argument or trying to score cheap partisan points. I’m trying to warn everybody where this goes. When it comes to political violence, I happen to know what I’m talking about thanks to my life experiences and I’m telling you: you don’t want it.

    PS: I worked with PP years before any of you encountered me on RTFLC. After a few months, I was disgusted by it and it would never do it again. Planned Parenthood is reprehensible and I would never work with them again because of that rather than the personal risk.

  11. Aw, damn it. Noooooooooo….

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1011212766487728133

    And with that, the owner of the Red Hen is all but guaranteed to be driven out of business and then subsequently invited to be a speaker at the 2020 DNC as a “victim of this Administration for daring to speak out” or whatever.

    I often say that there is a method to the madness with Trump’s tweets, but this is an exception. This was a misfire.

  12. But that movement also produced Eric Rudolf and plenty of other terrorists.

    I may have mentioned this before, but I worked at the building across from the abortion clinic blown up, I just had left by the time of the bombing. I never even knew what was in that building, they all looked the same in that office park. I also was in Centennial Park during the ’96 games, but days before the bombing. These events are real to me because I could have easily been there.

    My DJ post was meant to lighten the tone a little and acknowledge that I am not perfect in this, I do get frustrated with what I see. I also did a post after the Kathy Griffin incident where I basically said that we should leave Barron alone. Fonda is way out of bounds here.

    Unfortunately, calls to stop the madness are always met with “you first”. When a sincere effort is made to see the other sides’ POV, there is usually a subsequent reason to regret it. We aren’t going to get anywhere with this so be nice to your iGen kids, because they will likely be the ones to put an end to this barking mad bullshit from “the right” and “the left” (make no mistake, both sides are equally to blame), as millennials seem to be abdicating their responsibility so far.

  13. SCOTUS won’t review the Brendan Dassey conviction.

    I saw that earlier. He was treated egregiously and taken advantage of because of his very low IQ.

  14. “I worked with PP years before any of you encountered me on RTFLC. After a few months, I was disgusted by it and it would never do it again. Planned Parenthood is reprehensible and I would never work with them again because of that rather than the personal risk.”

    My mother did a rotation with them during nurse’s training. She’s a pro-choice as they come but asked to be taken out and said she would never work there again, she was so revolted by them.

    “. I also was in Centennial Park during the ’96 games, but days before the bombing.”

    I was there hours before. It was scary.

  15. I may have mentioned this before, but I worked at the building across from the abortion clinic blown up, I just had left by the time of the bombing

    No, I don’t recall you ever bringing it up, but that’s horrible. I hate to think of any of my friends being that close to something so terrible.

    My DJ post was meant to lighten the tone a little and acknowledge that I am not perfect in this

    It’s exactly what we needed. Maybe it’s deserving of a rant on another post, but I think the comedians of our time are failing society by deepening the hatred in the national psyche instead of lightening the tone. You know: actually being funny instead of just spouting “FUCK TRUMP”.

    If it’s up to us to do it, then we’ll do it for them, I suppose.

    Unfortunately, calls to stop the madness are always met with “you first”. When a sincere effort is made to see the other sides’ POV, there is usually a subsequent reason to regret it.

    What hurts me are the punches I get from the Right. I mentioned a few months ago that I got bitched out and blocked on Twitter by a Christian conservative for even suggesting that we should be trying to rebuild the political discourse. I never know how to react to it.

    I’m sure liberals who try to do the same thing are similarly attacked by people on their own side for suggesting that any peace is possible or even desirable.

    Kevin and I were discussing stuff like this last week over email. I told him that I believed civility would return after the Trump era because we would all be too exhausted to do it anymore. Like, we’ll want to make politics boring again.

    I firmly believe that we’ll learn how to get along again, I just hope there doesn’t have to be any bloodletting to get there.

  16. He’s on fire today.

    For what it’s worth, I think this is good. Mad Maxine is a legitimate target, not some hapless restaurant owner.

  17. Planned Parenthood is reprehensible

    she was so revolted by them

    Ok, I’m probably setting myself up for a lot of noise but….

    What are the specifics, here? Is it just the pro-choice component IRL? Based on both of your responses, I feel like there’s more to it than that based on your level of disgust?

  18. Mad Maxine is a legitimate target

    She is a legitimate target for a blogger or Fox pundit, but the President openly threatening a member of Congress should alarm people. And yes, Maxine was wrong, too. Both things can be true at the same time! Amazing!

  19. Planned Parenthood employees are True Believers to the cause of abortion. There wasn’t a whole lot of pretense about “women’s health” or anything else. They’re in the business of promoting and performing abortion. I was pro-choice when I worked there, but have steadily moved pro-life ever since. Everything the Christian Right says about them is true.

    I was especially disgusted by an incident we had when a guy shot himself in an adjacent parking lot. The police informed us that his suicide note indicated that he did it there because his wife had an abortion procedure at that facility and he wanted to be with the souls of his dead fetuses or something.

    Planned Parenthood denied the suicide had anything at all to do with the clinic when interviewed by the local paper.

    I’m not on the “ban all abortions” bandwagon, but I absolutely think Planned Parenthood should be defunded and strangled of donations until it’s gone. It’s foul.

  20. She is a legitimate target for a blogger or Fox pundit, but the President openly threatening a member of Congress should alarm people.

    Was he threatening her? I sort of thought the idiocy of the concept of “government official calls for terrorizing government officials” was his point. I didn’t read it as a threat though.

  21. Thanks for the insight.

    I visited the clinic in my town a couple of times. Free vaccinations before some international traveling.

  22. This is unfortunate:

    Yeah, they’re closing the plant here in KC next year. They’ve been blaming Trump dropping out of the TPP for their woes, but the real problem is that people aren’t buying their motorcycles anymore. Their main demographic is white Boomers with money to spend, which is a dying one.

    Oddly, both Trump and Harley-Davidson rely on the same demographic but disagree on Trump’s policies. Have fun with that paradigm.

  23. you never called out Right Wing idiots when they said vile things about Obama or Clinton and accused me of sucking Obama’s dick when I did;
    Seriously?

    I don’t know if you still have access to the archives; just do a search on my opinion when you brought up Rush Limbaugh and Chelsea Clinton. See if you find me cheering on stupid names that were used like First Wookie and such. If you’re including me in this statement you’re full of shit and dishonest, but then again that wouldn’t be a surprise to me.

    As far as accusing you of sucking Obama’s dick, well if you’re going to have a blog called “right-thinking” and spend more time defending leftist arguments and bashing anything to the right then you’re going to get ridiculed for it. Sure, you’d throw out some conservative bone every now and then only to watch that get eroded away with nuanced and not so subtle reversals a few weeks later. Like I said if you’re going to be a leftist be one. Just don’t play the “I’m a misunderstood conservative” victim bullshit game. NO ONE was buying it anymore. NO ONE buys it now.

    Trump’s amanuensis was a guy whose website frequently hurled racist vulgar abuse not only at Obama but Michelle and the kids; you guys didn’t denounce it so I guess you approve of it.

    Who Bannon? I’ll be honest I didn’t pay much attention to the guy, and stopped following your shitshow for the most part not too long after the primaries I believe, as you were pulling your same every GOP candidate is bad routine, but maybe I’ll vote LP since they don’t have a chance in hell of winning, but if they did have a chance it would be back pedal city. I did check in occasionally but I’m sure you have a list of things he said about Obama’s wife and kids so post some links. I was looking on the web here a bit but I’m sure there’s something out there. Maybe you can post a link. This is what I found by HuffPo. Based on what you’re saying HuffPo could have done better.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/15-gross-things-steve-bannon-has-said_us_596e174de4b0e983c059116b

    To me, this hypocrisy is best embodied by Newt, who’s been on TV this weekend bewailing the state of dialogue. This is a man who has spent thirty years as a rhetorical bomb thrower, accusing Democrats of being Communists and Nazis, accusing Obama of being a “Kenyan anti-colonialist” and saying Democrats want America to be destroyed and turned into an Islamist state. He’s one of the people who helped get us here.

    Ah yes, the true villain has been revealed. Old Newt and all his vile comments and calls to attack and the vulgar language. I forgot about him, seems like everyone else forgot too since I haven’t heard anyone bring him up in like ages. Oh and what do you know he’s conservative! No f’ing way! The root of all evil turns out to be a conservative. Didn’t see that coming from Hal did anyone else? Anyone? Jesus.

  24. SCOTUS has upheld Trump’s travel ban. The opinions are fascinating. I hope to get a post up later.

  25. The root of all evil turns out to be a conservative. Didn’t see that coming from Hal did anyone else?

    I think Hal’s problem is more with his personal branding than him being some sort of stealth liberal. He’s not a “conservative” at all, at least as conservatives are these days. Honestly, the question of what it even means to be a conservative is a whole other discussion on its own.

    Hal is decidedly Libertarian and on that basis, but he’s very “right-thinking” on multiple issues. He’s pro-2nd Amendment, pro-small government and fiscal responsibility, non-interventionist in foreign policy, and so on. The only area where he stands out from conservatives is that he’s either neutral on the Culture War or takes the more libertarian (or liberal, if you prefer) view on those issues.

    The only two things he favors that I don’t fully understand are that he’s more positive on Obama and his legacy than I would expect even a Libertarian to be and I don’t get his focus on the rights of sex workers and arguments that human trafficking for that purpose is an overblown problem.

    But in terms of his positions on policy matters, not personalities and cultural wedge issues, I’ve found that Hal hasn’t changed much over the years. I usually find that I disagree with him about people, but not often on policy. I don’t think you’d find find much wriggle room between his positions and, say, Ron Paul’s. That’s something that hasn’t changed after 10 years.

  26. Hal is decidedly Libertarian

    It isn’t surprising that a Libertarian doesn’t please anyone. I am left of center but think like a libertarian and I get sideways with my liberal friends sometimes. My big problem with Libertarian Party is their shitty candidates and I will no longer throw away my vote on people like crazy Gary J.

    the rights of sex workers and arguments that human trafficking for that purpose is an overblown problem.

    I haven’t seen his stances on this but I can almost see where he might be coming from. If a sex worker is in it voluntarily, there shouldn’t be a problem. Sex workers solve more than just the fetishes of married men, they take care of those that can’t take care of it themselves for whatever reason.

    I don’t know what you mean by human trafficking. To me, that implies non-consensual. Even the hardest of hard core libertarians don’t openly defend rape.

  27. I am left of center but think like a libertarian and I get sideways with my liberal friends sometimes.

    Here’s my whole thing. I don’t actually care what your politics are. What I care about is whether or not we can have a conversation. Somebody can fully agree with me on a topic, but if he can’t explain why he agrees beyond the fact that it happens to align with what Sean Hannity is saying about it, then we can’t talk.

    You can be an alt-Right dude, a Communist Tumblrina, a Libertarian Ayn Rand fanboy, or an Evangelicon and I don’t care as long as you are interested in having a real discussion.

    If you go through our threads here on RVS you’ll notice that when I get impatient with people, it’s because I’m unhappy with the level of discourse rather than that person’s positions on topics. You don’t have to agree with me, you just have to be willing to chat with me.

    I don’t know what you mean by human trafficking.

    I’m tempted to ask him to do a guest post on this. I’m not entirely clear on it either because it’s usually stuff he tweets and retweets. Hard to get a detailed discussion and I don’t want to mischaracterize his stances.

    I generally try to avoid talking about things I don’t understand. Yes, I’m being serious. Shut up.

  28. I don’t want to mischaracterize his stances.

    Absolutely, most of the time when I get frustrated is when I feel like I am not being understood despite what I consider to be rational statements.

  29. See, I was telling somebody the other day that when the person I’m arguing with walks away with the sense that I understand his or her positions, I win. I don’t win on points, more creative insults, being smarter, or anything else. If I feel like the other person understands me back, it’s just a bonus.

    Being understood is actually more important than being proven right, in terms of political discussion. It’s also tons harder to do.

  30. SCOTUS has upheld Trump’s travel ban. The opinions are fascinating.

    Sotomayor’s dissent is crystal clear evidence of why she should have never sat on any bench, let alone the Supreme Court. She flat out stated that she was not dissenting based on the text of the executive order, or the law. She should be impeached.

  31. Holy Crap. I didn’t think it would happen when he didn’t announce from the bench, but it’s just dropping that Justice Kennedy is retiring. He has been the huge swing vote on the court.

  32. Trump has plenty of nominees ready. McConnell best expedite that shit with all deliberate haste ahead of the midterms.

  33. McConnell best expedite that shit with all deliberate haste ahead of the midterms.

    Which will further enrage the left because of what happened with Garland Merrick?
    And if those hard-fought ‘rights’ of the left start getting taken away as a result of the SCOTUS change, further deepening of the division will presumably occur.
    The gloves aren’t just off, they’ve been sold on eBay. 😉

  34. Which will further enrage the left because of what happened with Garland Merrick?

    What are they going to do? Terrorize his family? Oh, wait, they already did.

    Trump has now what Obama didn’t in 2016: control of Congress. The Democrats are going to have to deal with it.

  35. Which will further enrage the left because of what happened with Garland Merrick?

    Impossible, the left is already at” full ass whack” level now, unhinged is pretty much at full capacity;

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgBGnwGwKpY

    What else are they going to do, shoot up more baseball fields? There are more banks to burn down, more freeways to block, more private property to vandalize. I guess they can trash Ferguson again. Antifa has been pretty quite lately, is it time to give them new marching orders? Instead of chasing us out of eateries and movie theaters, don’t beat around the bush, your outrage is clearly justified, just kill us on the spot. Resistance has not worked so far, time to raise the stakes

    And don’t delude yourself into thinking that the Democrats would act differently, they wouldn’t. Obama told his followers to always bring a gun to a knife fight, wise words. This is an opportunity of a life time. We have witnessed some very good decisions coming out of SCOTUS lately, this union beat down is just the latest. To get another conservative on the bench, this must be job one for Trump and his do nothing GOP held Congress.

  36. Impossible, the left is already at” full ass whack” level now, unhinged is pretty much at full capacity;

    no not even close, but its coming.
    i wonder what will set them off more Trumps pick for Kennedys seat or them losing seats in November.
    I fully expect molotovs and gunshots at some point.

    So justice Mike Lee?

  37. Some of the developments on the Red Hen matter that I haven’t gotten to:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTISqHn6jx8

    If the owner of the Red Hen decided to go protest Sanders after she went to another restaurant, that’s insane. It’s all well and good if she wants to decline service in her own restaurant, but turning the entire community, which depends heavily on tourism, into a platform for her brand of politics crossed the line.

    No wonder she had to quit the business association. Why in the world did she think she could disrupt other businesses in the association? What a fucking nutcase.

  38. There is a Red Hen restaurant in Napa. The owner was on the local news station this morning. You would think that anyone north of bag of rocks intelligence would know that the Napa Red Hen is not the Red Hen in Virginia. No matter, several Trumpistas went on Yelp and scorched the restaurant under the facade that the service and food was bad. This is just as stupid as panning a book on Amazon (without reading it) just because you don’t like the author.

    The Napa owner said all the right things about public accommodation and the sins of the Virginia owner.

  39. There is a Red Hen restaurant in Napa. The owner was on the local news station this morning. You would think that anyone north of bag of rocks intelligence would know that the Napa Red Hen is not the Red Hen in Virginia. No matter, several Trumpistas went on Yelp and scorched the restaurant under the facade that the service and food was bad. This is just as stupid as panning a book on Amazon (without reading it) just because you don’t like the author.

    Well, DOH. This is EXACTLY the sort of shit that Trump spent months and months stirring up during the campaign. And now he’s effectively directing it via Twitter while he’s supposed to the LEADER of your country LMFAO. FFS. Again, it’s so ridiculous this would have previously been satirical.

    And I guess if the press are the enemy of the people, why wouldn’t more people go shooting up newspaper offices?

  40. One thing that’s out of hand is that half of Twitter is blaming Milo Yiannopoulis for the shooting. Despite, you know, nobody knows what the shooter’s motive was.

  41. Ah yes, Milo wasn’t being serious. The problem is with people blaming him, not him saying he “can’t wait for the vigilante squads to start gunning journalists.”
    FFS. You’ve clearly just given up.

  42. Milo says all sorts of shocking things, to include arguing in favor of pederasty.

    However, it would be nice if we could find out what the shooter’s motive was before giving Milo more notoriety simply because somebody found an obscure statement from Milo talking about killing journalists.

    Perspective. How does it work?

  43. Oh I’m not defending people blaming him specifically for this attack, just how you decided to frame it.

    You’re apparently concerned about the rise in “incivility”, even though you voted for Trump and now your first comment in relation to the shooting is referring to Milo’s inflammatory comments IN ORDER TO complain that blaming Milo on twitter is ‘out of hand’.

    Perspective, absolutely.

  44. Oh I’m not defending people blaming him specifically for this attack, just how you decided to frame it.

    Ah, you know what? I’m sorry that you found a way to misinterpret what I wrote despite knowing full well what I was saying.

    You’re apparently concerned about the rise in “incivility”, even though you voted for Trump

    I didn’t say I was concerned about incivility. I said I was concerned about threats of violence and intimidation directed against the children and grandchildren of officials. I hope you’re not going to try to excuse what Peter Fonda and others have said because Trump is mean to Jim Acosta or something.

    I accept that the public discourse is crap and has been for years. But a hard line has to be drawn at threatening to harm some people’s children ostensibly to protect other children, if that’s what they think they’re doing.

  45. Ah, you know what? I’m sorry that you found a way to misinterpret what I wrote despite knowing full well what I was saying.

    I took what you said literally – that one thing that’s out of hand is that half of Twitter is blaming Milo Yiannopoulis for the shooting.

    I hope you’re not going to try to excuse what Peter Fonda and others have said because Trump is mean to Jim Acosta or something.

    Nope, not at all. I will always 100% stand against threats of violence and intimidation.
    But unfortunately your overall position continues to be rather disingenuous when you voted for and continue to support Trump.

    But a hard line has to be drawn at threatening to harm some people’s children ostensibly to protect other children, if that’s what they think they’re doing.

    So if someone’s child is harmed, and Fonda says he was only joking, your immediate thought would be to complain about people blaming Fonda on twitter?

  46. But unfortunately your overall position continues to be rather disingenuous when you voted for and continue to support Trump.

    And I find yours to be disingenuous when you know full well that ANY Republican president would be treated the way Trump is.

    So if someone’s child is harmed, and Fonda says he was only joking, your immediate thought would be to complain about people blaming Fonda on twitter?

    My immediate thought would be “Huh, I wonder why that person did it.”

    Instead, people started scraping the Web trying to find anything from anyone on the Right who might have inspired an attack against journalists and found a random quote by Milo. Yes, I think that’s nuts. “Milo Yiannopoulis” is currently trending in the US. That’s how nutty everyone is over it.

    If you want to draw comparisons between Fonda and Milo, then let’s ask why Milo was banned from Twitter and Fonda was not.

  47. https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/maryland-newspaper-shooting/h_5dab29029bf467814fc869817fb75b5b

    Clearly this was Milo’s fault. And Trump’s, since he somehow got the shooter to become involved in a losing defamation lawsuit against the newspaper he shot up over 3 years before he became president.

    We’re still in the Irresponsible Media Speculation phase, of course, but Milo is still trending. We may yet find out that this was politically motivated, but the shooter’s beef with the Capital-Gazette clearly predates some obscure statement by Milo.

    What happened with this is that the Left has been getting blasted all week for its violent, threatening rhetoric. So the second an incident happened, they scoured the Web to find something that would take the attention away from it.

    Pretty shitty, but not surprising.

  48. Nonsense, this is exactly what was advertised.

    Yeah, trying to have anything resembling a conversation is pointless. First pfluffy and now you.

    I’m out — back to lurking only. And being driven further right by people like you and pfluffy.

    Have a nice life.

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