It’s a major day in the neverending Mueller investigation.  They found some witches but they’re all in Russia.

The full indictment is here.   I’ve had some time to read through it and it’s striking how consistent it is with the “troll farm” indictments from February.  I wrote this at the time:

This was a small scale effort, from what I can tell.  Almost comical.  But look around you and see how this whole Russia narrative has deepened divisions between Americans, undermined the election results, trashed the reputation of the FBI (much of this was self-inflicted but wouldn’t otherwise have gotten this much attention), and sowed distrust for the American press.  They got a lot out of it for what they put in.

What I gathered from Rosenstein is that he wants to get the truth out about the 2016 Election and put us back on the path to restoring faith in our institutions.  Does this help?  I think so.  In fact, this particular development makes me think it’s even less likely that Mueller is going to lay a glove on Trump.  It’s hard to imagine anything that would create greater discord in American society than an impeachment.

On that basis, it shouldn’t be any surprise that DAG Rosenstein has declared that no American citizen committed any crime associated with the hacking or leaking of the DNC and Podesta emails.  The tale of collusion is busted and will live on as conspiracy theory like so much “fire can’t melt steel”.  This has to be the beginning of the end for Mueller’s investigation.  Unless I’m missing something.

“What about obstruction?” you might say.  What about it?  The IG report has come and gone and fully exposed how justifiable Comey’s firing was.  Also, if Mueller wants to go after Trump for it, then Rosenstein will have to recuse himself since he’s a witness in the case as the author of the memo that laid out the case for firing Comey.  Rosenstein isn’t going to do that.

So that’s about it for Trump-Russia-Possible Collusion.  Don’t get me wrong, I know it’s not over until Mueller goes back into retirement.  So I’ll save the post-mortem analysis for another day.

What I’d like to do is look at a few things in the indictment that I found interesting.  One was this:

As a reminder, critics of Wikileaks have been saying for a couple of years now that it’s an arm of Russian intelligence.  That doesn’t appear to be DOJ’s view.  In this, Wikileaks (Organization 1) thought they were talking to a Romanian hacker, not a Russian intelligence unit.  I thought that was noteworthy.

But hadn’t Wikileaks been implying that Seth Rich or someone else on the inside in the DNC had been the source of the documents?  Why yes, they did.  Someone should ask them about that.  Wait, somebody did.

The indictment pretty damningly makes the case that the Russians created the now-defunct DCLeaks site to distribute information.  I’m curious to know why they’d need to use Wikileaks, but we’ll see.

I’m leery about most of the findings in the indictment related to the hacking because I know the FBI was using Crowdstrike’s information.  In the unlikely event that any of these Russians gets extradited, we’ll get to find out how the DOJ gleaned all of this information.

One thing I do think we deserve to know is who the hell this is:

The identity of which congressional candidate asked a hacker for information on his opponent is as relevant to the public interest as, well, anything Wikileaks published from the DNC/Podesta emails.

You’ve probably heard that Roger Stone makes an appearance in there.  He’s not named, but it’s another one of those “person thought he was talking to a Romanian hacker, not a Russian spy” things.  It’s weaksauce, but there’s a lot being made about it.  Stone isn’t getting indicted.  They’d have done it at the same time as the Russians.

Now all of this isn’t to say that I’m perfectly happy with everything.  The timing, falling right between Strzok’s disastrous Congressional hearing and Trump’s meeting with Putin is very curious, to say the least.  I don’t think Trump has any choice but to spend most of his time discussing this.

It will be the first of many talks, as Trump is the President of the United States and that isn’t going to change anytime soon.  Can we please put the election behind us now or do we have to wait for Mueller to go away?

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One thing I have never understood with the logic on the left when it comes to removing Trump from office. Before and since the election, I’ve heard, and read from multiple liberals that Pence is worse than Trump. They said he would turn the US into a Theocracy, and attributed all sorts of character flaws, and evil motives to him. They flat out stated that he would be worse than Trump as a President. These very same people are the ones that have been calling for Trump’s impeachment. They do realize who becomes President if Trump is removed from office…right?

One thing I have never understood with the logic on the left when it comes to removing Trump from office. There is no logic to it. You will never see me advocate removing Trump despite how bad I think he is. Mike Pence would not be an improvement and he is probably more competent. These very same people are the ones that have been calling for Trump’s impeachment. Not necessarily. You would have to do some kind of Venn diagram of everyone discussing it. I am on “the left” and I certainly don’t advocate for a Pence presidency. Pence will… Read more »

Come on, when do I ever make “all liberals believe x” type arguments?

My knee is fully jerked from the DJ Thread. I know that you don’t make sweeping assumptions.

Zurvan’s point that Pence is scarier to liberals than Trump stands.

Pence is a liberal’s nightmare, but I doubt he ever gets the job unless Trump dies in office.


Not necessarily. You would have to do some kind of Venn diagram of everyone discussing it. That could prove tricky to do it with specific individuals, as I was just talking generally, but I’m willing to dig deeper since it’s my premise. We can start with Vanity Fair: Omarosa is Right: Why President Pence could be more terrifying than President Trump Followed by headlines such as: “TRUMP’S IMPEACHMENT STRATEGY COMES INTO FOCUS” “DONALD TRUMP IS NO LONGER HIDING HIS IMPEACHMENT STRATEGY” Which includes the line, “the special counsel’s report will almost certainly become the basis for articles of impeachment, a… Read more »

There’s bound to be others, as I found that after about 30 seconds of googling. I’ll see what else I can find, if only for my own curiosity.

It is worthwhile research. Editorial board must not be vetting the articles for consistency. I guess that makes sense for opinion pieces, but obviously not for news.

The Democrats should be focusing on fighting battles they think they can win-child separations, the environment, etc. Instead, they’re still fixated on all Trump, all the time, and now there are signs it will cost them in the elections. Notice how they’re not really talking about impeachment these days so much as trying to prove that somehow, somewhere, Trump broke the law. But it looks like he didn’t, or if he did anything shady then it’s not really criminal. They wanted Russians, well, here they are.

Judge Dredd, Pro Se

the dumbfuck that freelanced guccifer for the hacked data is a Florida Republican.

I also think you are either incredibly confused, maybe ignorant, or deliberately obfuscating the investigation. Mueller asked for 100 more sealed indictments, its hardly over. The Americans will be indicted last, probably in september.

But I’m sure you knew that too, you big Oracle you! Lmaoooo

Judge Dredd, Pro Se

Trust me we’ve been reading for years how you WANT this to end, but unfortunately (by the tone of the revenge you are waiting so desperately to strike) I think you know deep down this isn’t going to end well. Guccifer 2.0 is s very high profile target, and those indictments corroborate what the intelligence community said all along: it was a multi-user account that was run by Russian intelligence houses in Russia and Eastern Europe. Breitbart reporters have been bragging for years that guccifer was their secret weapon. Stranahan BRAGGED that he was receiving information from guccifer, and bragged… Read more »

Judge Dredd, Pro Se

Aaron nevins was the “Republican political blogger and operative” btw. Allegedly*

Judge Dredd, Pro Se

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Judge Dredd, Pro Se

I guess the indictment did mention him after all.

Judge Dredd, Pro Se

You sound so…… triggered! Lmao!

You sounded so sure of yourself! The chapter is not over on Lee, he may fold under questioning (to quote a line from goodfellas)!


EIther start adding value to conversations around here, or keep it to yourself.

Well he did let us know what the only diet that is certified Dredd approved is. And it took him at least two comments to claim you were wrong in that thread, and he didn’t mention Trump once. So there’s hope.

*Sigh* I’ll pick this one up…. Thanks a lot JDPS On that basis, it shouldn’t be any surprise that DAG Rosenstein has declared that no American citizen committed any crime associated with the hacking or leaking of the DNC and Podesta emails. So that’s not what he said. “The conspirators corresponded with several Americans during the course of the conspiracy through the internet,” Rosenstein said. “There’s no allegation in this indictment that the Americans knew they were corresponding with Russian intelligence officers.” What’s happened here is that Muller has evidence that the crime happened. Something that everyone except the GOP… Read more »

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